Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Any information from the Steward
Forum rules
Do not to post anything abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, or sexually-orientated.
Do not post anything negative about any player.
No advertising other games.
The management reserves the right to delete or lock threads and messages at any time.
Read the complete SIM rules and legal information.
User avatar
The Admin
Eclipse Champion
Posts: 1069
Joined: 18 years ago

Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by The Admin »

If you don't want to read much, skip to the New Option section below.

Background
SIM 7 was focused on adapting the old, fixed-width site to a new responsive site which would work equally well on all screen sizes. Many mobile or responsive sites simply reduce features and functionality on smaller screens. That was certainly tempting to do for the SIM since we have lists of information with up to 20 columns which clearly cannot fix on a phone-sized screen. The old, non-responsive site would deliver all those columns in minuscule font size requiring you to scroll both directions and zoom in and out. A good responsive site NEVER makes you scroll and zoom. You will rarely (if ever) find an Mobile App that requires scrolling both directions and zooming.

SIM 7.0
We decided that our SIM 7 responsive design must fulfill all the usual requirements of a responsive site while not loosing ANY functionality and not omitting any data. That posed a real challenge considering our huge tables/lists. But that is what we accomplished. We also improved our lists by adding better paging, the Quick Filter search, and making the sortable columns work correctly for the first time (sorting the entire list rather than just the 500 shown). We did our best to determine which columns were the most important and we gave them priority.

The Problems
The technology that adds all the table functionality (Javascript) runs in your browser and different browsers run at different speeds. The larger the list, the longer it takes to prepare the list. Calculating the column widths and deciding which columns need to be hidden in the reveal-triangle takes time. Some players, particularly using Firefox, noted that the slow speed impacted their enjoyment of the SIM. Also, it seems that every column is important to you - you don't like it when anything is "hidden" in the reveal-triangle.

Now we have a problem. A good responsive design includes all the data and doesn't require horizontal scrolling, but happy SIM players may prefer to scroll if that means they don't have to click the triangle.

New Option
For a limited time, we added a "Choose Horse List Format (beta)" option in the Settings option under the Profile menu. There are two options:
  • Responsive Format - Horse Lists will adapt to all screen sizes. It will hide columns that don't fit horizontally and move those columns to the reveal-triangle.
  • Scrollable Table - Lists will load faster and display all columns whether or not they fit on the screen. If they don't fit, you will have to scroll to the right to see them.
After the test, we hope to make a decision as to what settings provide the best SIM experience.
User avatar
Ashley Gibson
Grade 1 Winner
Posts: 923
Joined: 17 years ago
Location: In My Own Little World... they know me here...

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Ashley Gibson »

Thank you! Happy to have my scrollable back, even if it winds up temporary.
"I think it needs to be reiterated that Ashley Gibson is my hero.." - John Slotman (March 4, 2010 0757)

4:16 PM [John Slotman] I don't even know where to start.
4:16 PM [John Slotman] Except I heart Ashley.
User avatar
Rachel Sadler
Turf Router
Posts: 493
Joined: 16 years ago
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Rachel Sadler »

Whilst faster then Responsive Format, Scrollable Table is useless on a lap top.

You have to scroll right down to the bottom of the page before you can use the left and right scroll bar. then after you have scrolled down to find the bar, there are only 7 horses names visible on the screen, so if your horses name starts with A, you have to scroll all the way to the top again.

I feel that people with desktops and laptops are getting put in the back seat to mobile devices and it is frustrating, as it must be for you as well. I find myself having to change the way I play the game and its becoming less and less fun and taking more and more time to enter, ship, etc.
"I wish people will tell me when there unhappy"

We did, and you didn't do anything to fix the reason why we are unhappy!
User avatar
Dave Trainer
Grade 1 Winner
Posts: 942
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Dave Trainer »

Rachel - you can use the "end" key on your keyboard to go straight to the bottom without scrolling and similarly the "home" key will take you straight back to the top.

But I agree with you that us desktop and laptop users seem to be forgotten as sites try to accommodate mobile users and improve functionality for them.

As for the changes, the racing barn doesn't work well for me under either setting really as columns I don't use appear and one I want is in the triangle on responsive and on the far right on scrollable, neither of which is very satisfactory. I appreciate that it is difficult to please everyone re what columns are shown. I have now created smart barns so I can choose which columns appear which means I don't have the triangle or have to scroll left to right. This works well for me. I've tried both this morning and as I don't have any speed problems on chrome I've decided to use the responsive option.
User avatar
Tammy Stawicki
Hall of Fame
Posts: 3114
Joined: 15 years ago

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Tammy Stawicki »

So this is probably a mac/pc thing but I can scroll left/right using my touch pad so I didn't have Rachel's issues of needing to go all the way to the bottom to use the scroll bar. Just out of curiosity for those that do have that problem have you tried to see if the left/right arrows will scroll?

As for the scrollable table when I first saw it I was very excited. So much data... and as mentioned I can easily swipe to get left and right. That being said as I played with it some more I realized that when I was all the way to the right I could no longer see the horses name so all that data was kind of pointless to me. Now I could easily scroll back left to get the name but that would still quickly get tedious. I imagine for those that have to use the scroll bar it would be almost impossible to tie back what horse's info you are looking at. So as a whole the responsive design where you can see all the information for a horse at once makes the most sense. However, there is one task where the scrollable lists really shine and that is when you want to separate out all the horses with a null value for something such as soundess, condition, barn. You can't quick filter null values and while sorting things under the triangle made this easier you still had to triangle a bunch of horses to find where the cut off was for null value horses. Earlier this year I wanted to get all my horses soundness and horse whisperer checked and it was annoying trying to figure out which hadn't already been checked (though nowhere near quit the sim level annoying). With scrollable I could do the sort and real quick left/right scroll to find the cut-off point. So for that scrollable would have been nice.

For me personally, when I am in the barns I can usually see the columns I want to see so either format works fine for 99.9% of my sim play and truthfully I don't see what could be done to make it 100% perfect, and even if it was 100% perfect for me I'm sure it would still be ruining someone else's life.

Also I hadn't realized sorting was fixed to sort across pages. That is awesome and explains why when I sorted in search by horse's earnings when I went to the second page it was only low earning horses. Feeling kind of silly that I hadn't realized at the time that that was what was happening. Thank you once again for all the time and effort you've put into the sim. It really is an amazing website.
Turf Miler studs
Hempstead
Nonego
Omnsicience

Paint Sprinter studs
Jersey
Lecythus*

Paint Mid studs
Corona Wagon Train*
Jacinth
Komati*
Livewires Turnpike*

Discounts for stakes winners/producers
* = multidistance potential
User avatar
Robbie Dee
Classic Contender
Posts: 356
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Cornwall UK

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Robbie Dee »

I use a laptop so scrollable not much use to me.
I prefer responsive on my default barns although I much prefer the system used on my custom barns where I can pick which columns I want to see.

As for the above comments re phones, I doubt very much that anybody joined the Sim because they found the game on their phone.
Folk joined because the game was fun to play on computers, although if somebody is stuck and can't get to a PC or laptop then I agree that the game should be available to access on their phones.

I don't think computer users are being ignored in favour of smartphone users as the Sim must know they wouldn't attract any more new players if they ever sacrificed the PC / laptop users in favour of phone users.
some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue
User avatar
Ashley Gibson
Grade 1 Winner
Posts: 923
Joined: 17 years ago
Location: In My Own Little World... they know me here...

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Ashley Gibson »

Tammy Stawicki wrote: 6 years ago So this is probably a mac/pc thing but I can scroll left/right using my touch pad so I didn't have Rachel's issues of needing to go all the way to the bottom to use the scroll bar. Just out of curiosity for those that do have that problem have you tried to see if the left/right arrows will scroll?
I am on a Windows 10 based laptop and I can use my left/right arrow keys and have no trouble viewing things, other than as you mentioned it may be nice if the horse's name was frozen on the table. Previously I'd had to remove so many things I'd like to see for my horses just to be able to see what barn they were in without having to click on the dropdown arrow. I'd realized I'd missed MANY horses for not being in alternate barns, because I do everything out of my alternate barns... breeding/entering and my leases from last year didn't go to a barn, so they were off in ignorey land.
"I think it needs to be reiterated that Ashley Gibson is my hero.." - John Slotman (March 4, 2010 0757)

4:16 PM [John Slotman] I don't even know where to start.
4:16 PM [John Slotman] Except I heart Ashley.
User avatar
Nena Olson
Hall of Fame
Posts: 5577
Joined: 17 years ago

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Nena Olson »

I switched to the scrolling tables as well, since I mostly enter from a laptop/desktop, and I noticed that the scrollbar isn't on the actual window itself but only at the very bottom of what I assume is the DIV holding that data which is why you have to scroll to the very bottom of your table of horses to see it. Is there a way to make it so that the whole window has the right/left scrollbar and not the div? I think that is where the issue lies with the scrolling. The scrolling DIV made mobile pretty much useless for me because it kept freezing while loading the whole barn and since I have a LOT of horses, it does take a long time to load.

If we are able to somehow make it so that the scrollbar shows up a lot sooner than after you scroll down to the bottom of a table of 500 horses, you could always use jQuery and lock the first column so that it is always viewable and the rest of the tables slide behind it when you scroll.

Ex: http://zurb.com/playground/projects/res ... index.html

Or, maybe you could make the columns have a toggle so you can decide what you want to display? This won't be under manage barns but on the top of the actual table on the page you are currently visiting.

http://filamentgroup.github.io/tablesaw ... oggle.html

That way those that want to just enter, can just list the horse's name and last entered or whatever instead of having the SIM decide what should or should not be displayed. The user can then make it respond how they want since everyone wants things to be displayed differently. Personally as a SIM player, I would not mind this second option on a mobile device in favor of a responsive design.
✧.* SIM Artist ੈ✩‧₊˚
User avatar
The Steward
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16522
Joined: 18 years ago
Location: So Cal!
Contact:

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by The Steward »

I am on a 15 inch laptop and my browser is set to about 3/4s of my screen. I have 19 columns in the racing barn (I really need to find a home for that 2yo) and don't need to scroll in either format. How small are people's browsers/laptops if I get 19 columns without needing to make my window bigger???
"There's no secret to training a good horse. It's a matter of being fortunate enough to get one."
"Funny how you often regret the stuff you didn't do more than the stuff you did do" - GG
User avatar
Nena Olson
Hall of Fame
Posts: 5577
Joined: 17 years ago

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Nena Olson »

The Steward wrote: 6 years ago I am on a 15 inch laptop and my browser is set to about 3/4s of my screen. I have 19 columns in the racing barn (I really need to find a home for that 2yo) and don't need to scroll in either format. How small are people's browsers/laptops if I get 19 columns without needing to make my window bigger???
For me, I was referring to only my phone as my desktop is 28 inches and definitely can fit them all lol. I'm not a mobile player though so I am trying to find a solution for large barns that play mostly on small screens :)
✧.* SIM Artist ੈ✩‧₊˚
User avatar
The Steward
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16522
Joined: 18 years ago
Location: So Cal!
Contact:

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by The Steward »

Nena Olson wrote: 6 years ago
The Steward wrote: 6 years ago I am on a 15 inch laptop and my browser is set to about 3/4s of my screen. I have 19 columns in the racing barn (I really need to find a home for that 2yo) and don't need to scroll in either format. How small are people's browsers/laptops if I get 19 columns without needing to make my window bigger???
For me, I was referring to only my phone as my desktop is 28 inches and definitely can fit them all lol. I'm not a mobile player though so I am trying to find a solution for large barns that play mostly on small screens :)
I was more asking someone like Rachel, who said she's using a laptop and can't see everything.
"There's no secret to training a good horse. It's a matter of being fortunate enough to get one."
"Funny how you often regret the stuff you didn't do more than the stuff you did do" - GG
User avatar
Ashley Gibson
Grade 1 Winner
Posts: 923
Joined: 17 years ago
Location: In My Own Little World... they know me here...

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Ashley Gibson »

The Steward wrote: 6 years ago (I really need to find a home for that 2yo)
I have an extra stall in my racing barn! It can come live with me!
"I think it needs to be reiterated that Ashley Gibson is my hero.." - John Slotman (March 4, 2010 0757)

4:16 PM [John Slotman] I don't even know where to start.
4:16 PM [John Slotman] Except I heart Ashley.
User avatar
Tammy Stawicki
Hall of Fame
Posts: 3114
Joined: 15 years ago

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Tammy Stawicki »

The Steward wrote: 6 years ago I am on a 15 inch laptop and my browser is set to about 3/4s of my screen. I have 19 columns in the racing barn (I really need to find a home for that 2yo) and don't need to scroll in either format. How small are people's browsers/laptops if I get 19 columns without needing to make my window bigger???
I have a 13 inch laptop. With the browser at about 90% of my screen in the racing barn I get 13 complete columns (up to gallop completely and part of soundness). I maximize the browser I get 15 complete columns (most everything up to condition completely and partial for barn).
Turf Miler studs
Hempstead
Nonego
Omnsicience

Paint Sprinter studs
Jersey
Lecythus*

Paint Mid studs
Corona Wagon Train*
Jacinth
Komati*
Livewires Turnpike*

Discounts for stakes winners/producers
* = multidistance potential
User avatar
Lisa Bennert
Turf Router
Posts: 493
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by Lisa Bennert »

I play the Sim about 99% of the time on my laptop, and the only thing that really kept bothering me about Sim 7 were the hidden columns as I was, for example, never able to see the horse type at the top (which I used a lot in my barns with unnamed 2year olds) no matter how few columns I chose to display. I have now set my format on Scollable Table and I LOVE it, as I'm finally able to see everything I want at one look (also I really like that the breed is shown in short-form now). I really hope this feature stays, it makes playing Sim much more easier for me again.
Also I noticed under "Manage Barns" the columns at the top are all kind of mixed up and shown on top of each other making it impossible to read them (I don't know how to describe it any better) - has anyone else had that problem ?
And finally a huge thank you to the Sim-team for working so hard and trying their best to please everyone, which I'm sure is no easy task. I don't think any other online game is this responsive to user suggestions and that really makes the Sim unique!
User avatar
The Admin
Eclipse Champion
Posts: 1069
Joined: 18 years ago

Re: Horse Lists - Speed/Columns/Triangle/Responsive

Post by The Admin »

Lisa Bennert wrote: 6 years ago Also I noticed under "Manage Barns" the columns at the top are all kind of mixed up and shown on top of each other making it impossible to read them (I don't know how to describe it any better) - has anyone else had that problem ?
Can you send a screenshot? What browser? It should look like this:
Image
Post Reply