Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

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Te Akau Downs
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Te Akau Downs »

yeah my older horses changed
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Louise Bayou
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Louise Bayou »

Ashley Gibson wrote: 6 years ago
Pete Vella wrote: 6 years ago someone could have a made a killing off selling chaser mares before this was fixed LOL
I wish I was one of them. I actually bred a chaser last year thinking that I was breeding the chaser equivalent of a Blue Hen and not the chaser equivalent of a formidable, even if the number hasn't changed, my decision to breed her would have. I'm grumpy now but I'll get over it.
Same here Ashley. I bred the "brilliant" just because they were brilliant. Kind of annoyed I spent the money to breed them and wouldn't if the comment would not have been wrong.

That being said, I'm in no way unhappy that Chasers got adjusted. It was just dumb that everyone got freaks, they all ran 100sf and 98% of them couldn't win a NW2 after that.
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The Steward
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by The Steward »

We feel bad about this mix up/fail... so we're working on something you guys will like :-)
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Brian Chunn
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Brian Chunn »

I was building up a nice "chaser" breeding barn...I thought,all potential now and off to AJ.
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Te Akau Downs
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Te Akau Downs »

i agree louise, im happy that its hard to get freaks as there was way to many running around and i'm happy bout the Speed figures changing to be more realistic with the TB's just the breeding sides sudden change to potentials from brilliant and the sudden drop in some chaser jumps comments, i can handle comments for 3yo's but to drop again after pre season comment is hard to take
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Gigi Gofaster
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Gigi Gofaster »

I'm really struggling with this. I don't know what to do with stallion assessments anymore, except to figure that everyone hypo nicks have gone down by 1 rating, but I wouldn't know how much exactly without redoing every hypomate, since I'm not sure they are all the same rate of drop.

It also seems odd to have a greatest strength = potential, and a 'has potential as the dam of steeplechasers' to actually equal 'no ability'. If all y 'green light' mares really has no ability then I've spent a whole lot of money on getting nothings.

When i redid the BA on one mare, she actually went down from greatest strength to green light, still appears as 'potential' (where my other green lights don't), yet she's produced three winners out of 4 to race. She's the one where one tested BA rating when down form an A to a B+

and I tested one of the better rpoducing active chase mares, and got this
'Y'alldosomething' has some broodmare potential, but she might not be the right fit for the classiest stables.
Additionally, 'Y'alldosomething' has potential as the dam of steeplechasers, so if you're interested in pursuing that I give you the green light!"

If that mare is a 'potential', or like many green light mares, a 'no ability', I think we may have some issues as I don't know what would be a star or formidable.

The problem is that with chasers, where you don't have to time to race a mare, retire and breed, and wait to see how the foals do before finding out if she's any good, the BA and hypomates are critical. I commend the chase figure adjustments, and the addition of a star and blue hen comparable rating, but I really don't understand what has happened here and what to do with my mares now.
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Laura Ferguson
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Laura Ferguson »

The problem is that with chasers, where you don't have to time to race a mare, retire and breed, and wait to see how the foals do before finding out if she's any good, the BA and hypomates are critical. I commend the chase figure adjustments, and the addition of a star and blue hen comparable rating, but I really don't understand what has happened here and what to do with my mares now.
Agreed. There were a lot of good additions here, including the ability to figure out how fit your chaser is, and some much needed adjustments to freaks/speed figures, but the breeding end has left me perplexed.
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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

Sometimes hypos and BSA hurt you more than they help you so the best thing to do is to re-evaluate your mares based on how they have produced.
Last season I went through my mares and used the reverse stud book trick on all of them.
I made a spreadsheet on excel to document.

Basically I knew each mare and the type of gallop they produced for every one of their foals.
I was able to tie a % on to each of my mares and then could decide which mares I really wanted to continue breeding.
I had to also account for the fact that some of the horses had the old gallop comment attached to them so the numbers were semi skewed.

Obviously this is not easy with a larger barn, but it is a very helpful project when adjustments like these are made.
And adjustments like these are nice when all the gallop comments and BSA comments became too vague.

If everything is a freak or everything is a Hen, then it becomes harder to to decipher the actually real freaks or real hens from the fake ones.
The change actually puts a more realistic value on your horse when it comes time to sell.

I don't run chasers, but these are some of my experiences when we had the changes to mixers 4 or 5 seasons back.
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Rachel Sadler
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Rachel Sadler »

Pete Vella wrote: 6 years ago Sometimes hypos and BSA hurt you more than they help you so the best thing to do is to re-evaluate your mares based on how they have produced.
Firstly we cant find out if foals are any good until 3, then It can take another couple of years to find out if a steeplechase mare is any good as steeplechasers themselves can jump up or down in grades more often then thoroughbreds. So seeing as the foals don't race until halfway through there 3rd year hypos are very important to steeplechase breeders.

With the mares, we breed our mares to the best stallions without knowing for 3 years if it has been worth it, so BSA is very important as well.

Thoroughbred, and mixer breeders have it so much easier then steeplechase breeders and whilst your method is great for them i doubt it would work for steeplechasing

PS all steeplechase foals all gallop crap so that gives you no idea either
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Rachel Sadler
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Rachel Sadler »

Laura Ferguson wrote: 6 years ago
The problem is that with chasers, where you don't have to time to race a mare, retire and breed, and wait to see how the foals do before finding out if she's any good, the BA and hypomates are critical. I commend the chase figure adjustments, and the addition of a star and blue hen comparable rating, but I really don't understand what has happened here and what to do with my mares now.
Agreed. There were a lot of good additions here, including the ability to figure out how fit your chaser is, and some much needed adjustments to freaks/speed figures, but the breeding end has left me perplexed.
As the steward has said, they are working on fixing all this and im sure she will come up with something to make us all happy.

in the mean time i wouldn't be doing anything drastic with my mares as you dont know what she planned :)
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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

Rachel Sadler wrote: 6 years ago
Pete Vella wrote: 6 years ago Sometimes hypos and BSA hurt you more than they help you so the best thing to do is to re-evaluate your mares based on how they have produced.
Firstly we cant find out if foals are any good until 3, then It can take another couple of years to find out if a steeplechase mare is any good as steeplechasers themselves can jump up or down in grades more often then thoroughbreds. So seeing as the foals don't race until halfway through there 3rd year hypos are very important to steeplechase breeders.

With the mares, we breed our mares to the best stallions without knowing for 3 years if it has been worth it, so BSA is very important as well.

Thoroughbred, and mixer breeders have it so much easier then steeplechase breeders and whilst your method is great for them i doubt it would work for steeplechasing

PS all steeplechase foals all gallop crap so that gives you no idea either
So my method might work for your more established mares that have 3 yo on the track? Just a suggestion.
But also I do understand the frustrating part of it all.
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Laura Ferguson
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Laura Ferguson »

So my method might work for your more established mares that have 3 yo on the track? Just a suggestion.
The only trick with that is that the ratings all just changed. So, if your older mare has a retired 5yo freak chaser, that freak chaser, if racing today, might be a stakes and not a freak at all. A few years from now, yes, that approach could help with older mares, but right now, all of the comments, both breeding and racing, are in flux.

Chasers really are tricky, because they start later as racers (and as mentioned above, you can't even test for their chasing ability until they turn three), but pension off at the same time. So by the time you find a good stallion, he's pensioned or close to it. Same with a mare. By the time you really figure out you have a good one, you have one, maybe two foals left.

It's been an interesting ride. I went from all greatest strength to a combination brilliant/strong and two potential at the turn of the year when the ratings first changed, to one strong and the rest potential. Same mares. I'm not making any drastic moves, but I'm also probably not going to breed any of my chaser mares until Week 16, just to let the dust settle and see if any other changes ensue.
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Lucas Davenport »

Well, every one of my mares is now just potential. OK, I'm not buying that, since I have a lot of nice mares that produce well. So that means to me that NOW potential might be OK. But, I just gave away to AJ a few that I just retired and were only "potential." I was very surprised that they were only potential, but I thought they must be bad slides, so they got AJ'd. I'm glad its only a game.
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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

The one big thing that can come out of things like this is that when admin or the steward makes a change to the way information from the game is provided to us where an impact is made to the previous known and now the information has changed to a new unknown, it would be nice for a heads up.

Even if it was just the way it was displayed vs the actual ability.
People make financial decisions in game based on the grade of a mare and these changes could negatively affect many barns.

Something on the front page, a forum post dedicated to the updates ect ect. Also possible a free hypo or bsa day so people are not forced to use another 10k or 250gp per mare.

Just some thoughts
Last edited by Mr. Lord Rich 6 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Glenn Larson
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Re: Retired Mare's Chase Ratings - corrected

Post by Glenn Larson »

Pete Vella wrote: 6 years ago The one big thing that can come out of things like this is that when admin or the steward makes a change to the way information from the game is provided to us where an impact is made to the previous known and now the information has changed to a new unknown, it would be nice for a heads up.

Even if it was just the way it was displayed vs the actual ability.
People make financial decisions in game based on the grade of a mare and these changes could negatively affect many barns.

Something on the front page,..Just some thoughts
I can't agree more. jmo, but this looks a fix that got implemented without any testing. it's absolutely absurd to suggest that whole barns went to the lowest mare ranking, I understand that the mares have not changed. Unfortunately, the way the adjustment has been made leaves owners with little or no differentiation between mares since whole barns are now rated "potential." I understand and appreciated the need to radically adjust the chaser world, but it would have made more sense to eliminate mare ratings. It certainly would appear that at the very least the scale has been grossly overcorrected. A change this dramatic should be announced and explained prior to implementation
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