GP Horse Sale

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Laura Ferguson
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Laura Ferguson »

Cleo Patra wrote: 2 years ago Guys, the Thoroughbreds recently had additions similar to this via multiple GP auctions and the world hasn’t ended. I’ve really REALLY appreciated them in my turf router barn because I’m big on trying to create diverse bloodlines that will fit the stallion ranks 10 seasons from now but obviously I have a tonne of Two Toned blood and he’s got sons and grandsons dominating the stud book.

If you object to the idea of a stallion, grab a mare and try and get your game bred stallion out of them. In my view, mixers started off with such a small population that there will need to be at least 2-3 more of these influxes before the population will self sustain. That’s not a matter of player behaviour as such, it’s straight up pure numbers.
The holiday stallions, on the mixer level, were totally apples and oranges to your experience with TBs. Imagine stallions being added that made Conquerer, Nighteyes and Farseer essentially useless and unable to attract mares overnight, because the new stallions hypo'd so much better than them. If you haven't played mixers, you really can't understand how disruptive those holiday stallions were. For some of the divisions, the holiday stallions were the equivalent of Fearless Spirit. If you read this thread, the majority of the mixer players who have posted are not necessarily opposed to new bloodlines being added, but new bloodlines being added that will be equally as disruptive to the current stallion population. If all stallions are going to have the same numbers as stated in the initial post, for some divisions, it has the potential to be that way. It's like tossing TB dirt route numbers (where freaks are common) into the less established TB divisions.

It's also discouraging to those of us who have tried to diversify, to be constantly "rescued" for a potential, rather than actual, problem. I'm with the rest of those players that have posted in that despite my concerns, I'll probably acquire one of these, to keep up with everyone else, but I'd be much happier if these stallions, in ALL divisions, do well but not spectacular in the shed.
440 Racing Barn
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by 440 Racing Barn »

i * last time when the hoilday studs came in and got some rude commints from other players so now i say bring the on
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Cleo Patra
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Cleo Patra »

I get the frustration with the holiday studs. I would absolutely have been gutted if I’d been in the mixers at the time. That said, these are specifically stated as NOT being the level of the holiday studs. They’re just a nice allowancey/stakes type bloodline expanders. That means they’re additions that address the concerns raised by the holiday studs? I’m just not sure the level of vitriol in this particular thread is justified for this specific conversation, even though the holiday studs thing was a * up.
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Gigi Gofaster
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Gigi Gofaster »

I'm new to the short track mixers, but since I produced Devon Castle, I'll throw in my two pence and brace myself.

With Castle as an example, yes he was brilliant. But so was my other stallion, Devon trickster, who was seriously almost as good, and I kept him a whole lot cheaper to try and encourage breeders to use him. And there were/are a stack of others that are really just about as good (and one or two who are just as good) as Castle. It feels like there is some reluctance to use stallions that are really good, but not the hot commodity, and I don't know why. I'm guilty of it too, with my short track breeding (although I will say I have no idea what I'm doing yet so I'm probably over-reliant on nicks and gossip). The holiday studs last time seemed to have had almost no impact on demand for the better trotter studs, but I wasn't breeding other mixers so I don't know what happened - I do think chaser homebred stallions got slammed by the game created studs, but that division is very hard to breed and arguably needed some help.

Now I am exploring a wider world of mixers, and as a new breeder I find a couple things frustrating. Like chasers (and to some degree trotters), it's really hard to make good money with anything less than an upper edge stakes horse. Blue hens are all over the place but tons are not producing. Meanwhile, the best mixer stallions are really pricey. I'm struggling with paying as much to breed a dubious blue hen to a DS mixer stud as I would sending a proven blue hen to the very best TB DS studs, especially when I know my TB DS offspring is a lot more likely to be competitive, and win back that stud fee and more - and not languish low on the boards in endless allowances, losing by less than a neck to still come in 4th or 5th. Not to mention if I get a filly from my TB DS that becomes a blue hen, I know she's special, not just one of a bajillion that has very little lease value.

These new horses may create some competition, but with that it may force stud fees down too. As a new breeder in these mixers, I'm looking forward to that. I know that isn't a very charitable position to those that have worked long and hard to get a really good homebred stallion, but I'm finding it hard to justify staying in these divisions when they just aren't economically viable from a breeding standpoint. Now, I'm still going to use the top nicking and proven stallions much more than these guys, simply because they aren't top tier and I don't know enough to stand a good chance of getting a top runner or future stud out of them- although I will certainly use them to produce broodmares with fresh lines. If the top end studs are a little cheaper, I'll use them more, so from me at least I don't think stud owners will see any loss.

I may be way off the mark here, since I'm new to most mixers, so this is simply my observations. I do understand why long term breeders would be frustrated, but this time at least it seems like the new studs (and not everyone is getting stallions) will be best placed diversifying the bottom end of pedigrees. The top end studs will still be the best, and I expect they will still warrant decent fees. Maybe a little less decent though.

By the way, I did order one of these, but I ordered a mare - mostly out of sentimental reasons, but also to give me a chance at breaking into a division I am really struggling with. I'm not adding a stallion to the mix.
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Laura Ferguson
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Laura Ferguson »

Cleo Patra wrote: 2 years ago I get the frustration with the holiday studs. I would absolutely have been gutted if I’d been in the mixers at the time. That said, these are specifically stated as NOT being the level of the holiday studs. They’re just a nice allowancey/stakes type bloodline expanders. That means they’re additions that address the concerns raised by the holiday studs? I’m just not sure the level of vitriol in this particular thread is justified for this specific conversation, even though the holiday studs thing was a * up.
I think what has the mixer breeders concerned is that the example given, Son of a Paint, is the rare stallion that hypos BETTER than the holiday stallions. So, the new stallions could come in at exactly the same level as the holiday stallions. Maybe it was just a bad example, and if that's the case, some clarification would be appreciated. I'm not the only one who is a little gun-shy after the holiday stallions and hoping not to see a repeat of that experience.
Noel Collins
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Noel Collins »

I have a good number of mixers in my barn in proportion to thoroughbreds. a run in all of them except the Standardbreds and I will admit to having two or three chasers.

Last week I went to breed an Arab route mare. I have 6 oof them currently. Guess what, she has The Visionary in her recent ancestry. So do five of my six mares. I hit the stud book to check options for the ladies and I see "The Visionary" in almost every stud. This left me 6 options out of 44 standing studs for 5 of 6 of those mares. Most have already seen the studs they could (that I could afford). So in order to get some new bloodlines into the Arab route mix I am ordering an Arab route stud. An Arab route stud free of the Visionary so I can get breedings done in my own barn and provide the bloodline to others. Its needed in that area. Theres a lack. I don't mind that he won't be the top stud out there. I just want to get a decent stud option for my girls, that I can afford, that won't result in 6 legged 3 eyed foals.
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Tammy Stawicki
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Tammy Stawicki »

Laura Ferguson wrote: 2 years ago
Cleo Patra wrote: 2 years ago I get the frustration with the holiday studs. I would absolutely have been gutted if I’d been in the mixers at the time. That said, these are specifically stated as NOT being the level of the holiday studs. They’re just a nice allowancey/stakes type bloodline expanders. That means they’re additions that address the concerns raised by the holiday studs? I’m just not sure the level of vitriol in this particular thread is justified for this specific conversation, even though the holiday studs thing was a * up.
I think what has the mixer breeders concerned is that the example given, Son of a Paint, is the rare stallion that hypos BETTER than the holiday stallions. So, the new stallions could come in at exactly the same level as the holiday stallions. Maybe it was just a bad example, and if that's the case, some clarification would be appreciated. I'm not the only one who is a little gun-shy after the holiday stallions and hoping not to see a repeat of that experience.
Yea I think it would help alleviate some of the angst if it actually was said that these horses would not be at holiday stud level but that hasn’t been said yet
Turf Miler studs
Hempstead
Nonego
Omnsicience

Paint Sprinter studs
Jersey
Lecythus*

Paint Mid studs
Corona Wagon Train*
Jacinth
Komati*
Livewires Turnpike*

Discounts for stakes winners/producers
* = multidistance potential
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Tammy Stawicki
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Tammy Stawicki »

Tammy Stawicki wrote: 2 years ago
Laura Ferguson wrote: 2 years ago
Cleo Patra wrote: 2 years ago I get the frustration with the holiday studs. I would absolutely have been gutted if I’d been in the mixers at the time. That said, these are specifically stated as NOT being the level of the holiday studs. They’re just a nice allowancey/stakes type bloodline expanders. That means they’re additions that address the concerns raised by the holiday studs? I’m just not sure the level of vitriol in this particular thread is justified for this specific conversation, even though the holiday studs thing was a * up.
I think what has the mixer breeders concerned is that the example given, Son of a Paint, is the rare stallion that hypos BETTER than the holiday stallions. So, the new stallions could come in at exactly the same level as the holiday stallions. Maybe it was just a bad example, and if that's the case, some clarification would be appreciated. I'm not the only one who is a little gun-shy after the holiday stallions and hoping not to see a repeat of that experience.
Yea I think it would help alleviate some of the angst if it actually was said that these horses would not be at holiday stud level but that hasn’t been said yet
And actually even if it was said we were also told holiday studs were comparable to the best horses in a division so shouldn’t take over and that may have been true in some but definitely turned out not to be the case in others. Have I mentioned 11 of the last 13 lately (and three of those 11 were 2x winners if you count them twice it’s 14 of the last 16). Which goes to Michael’s point of asking if they will have the same numbers across divisions. And I remember that argument because I was one of the strong supporters in the initial days (for all I know I was one of those people rude to 440, sorry) but I was very very wrong that things would work out ok which is why I am now so angst filled about things being repeated.
Turf Miler studs
Hempstead
Nonego
Omnsicience

Paint Sprinter studs
Jersey
Lecythus*

Paint Mid studs
Corona Wagon Train*
Jacinth
Komati*
Livewires Turnpike*

Discounts for stakes winners/producers
* = multidistance potential
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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

Hopefully the steward is reading all of these posts, because it is not just complaining to complain, it is a legitimate concern to many of the core mixer trainers in the game.
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Cleo Patra
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Cleo Patra »

Laura Ferguson wrote: 2 years ago
Cleo Patra wrote: 2 years ago I get the frustration with the holiday studs. I would absolutely have been gutted if I’d been in the mixers at the time. That said, these are specifically stated as NOT being the level of the holiday studs. They’re just a nice allowancey/stakes type bloodline expanders. That means they’re additions that address the concerns raised by the holiday studs? I’m just not sure the level of vitriol in this particular thread is justified for this specific conversation, even though the holiday studs thing was a * up.
I think what has the mixer breeders concerned is that the example given, Son of a Paint, is the rare stallion that hypos BETTER than the holiday stallions. So, the new stallions could come in at exactly the same level as the holiday stallions. Maybe it was just a bad example, and if that's the case, some clarification would be appreciated. I'm not the only one who is a little gun-shy after the holiday stallions and hoping not to see a repeat of that experience.
Now I’ve had a proper look at Son of a Paint, I see what you mean and fair enough to be gun shy. I got the impression they weren’t going to be as nice as the holiday stallions (mostly because I thought Son of a Paint was one haha). I doubt Em would make them as strong as they’ve been previously given the feedback.
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TR... DAY TO DAY | FIRST CLASS | MEGAPIXELS | MIJO | VALAR | WILDNESS
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Randall Allen
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Randall Allen »

Honestly, I don’t know how the steward keeps a positive attitude. No matter what decision is made with regards to the Sim, people get on the forum complaining nonstop. Some of you all that give her a hard time, all the time, should be ashamed. She created a game that we all obviously enjoy. I don’t think everything needs to be criticized to the level some of you take it. She probably can’t go one single day of life without hearing some kind of Sim complaint. If this were my game and I got negative feedback all the time, I honestly would start to hate you guys.

If you don’t like the holiday stallions, don’t order one or use them.
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Randall Allen
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Randall Allen »

.
440 Racing Barn
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by 440 Racing Barn »

agree with randell great post
440 Racing Barn
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by 440 Racing Barn »

but whats with the winner dog
Brandon Schultz
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Re: GP Horse Sale

Post by Brandon Schultz »

Randall Allen wrote: 2 years ago Honestly, I don’t know how the steward keeps a positive attitude. No matter what decision is made with regards to the Sim, people get on the forum complaining nonstop. Some of you all that give her a hard time, all the time, should be ashamed. She created a game that we all obviously enjoy. I don’t think everything needs to be criticized to the level some of you take it. She probably can’t go one single day of life without hearing some kind of Sim complaint. If this were my game and I got negative feedback all the time, I honestly would start to hate you guys.
While I see what you're getting at and all too often people complain just to complain, this isn't just a small decision. It's a pretty big change that will strongly impact the entire sim (minus thoroughbreds) forever. It will completely change how breeding is done and the future of bloodlines. Many players have worked hard to establish impactful bloodlines and they are worried that all that work was for nothing - which is a totally valid fear. And, for better or for worse, it's setting a precedence of pay to play. All of this and players have less than 48 hours to decide whether or not they want to participate and are forced to quickly form an opinion on whether or not they like the changes. It's a lot to take in in a very short period of time.

I personally am still not sure what I'm doing. Am I buying one of these? Am I ignoring it and staying irrelevant in mixers? Am I quitting mixers? I have about 12 hours left to decide. That's a bummer. I totally agree that the steward can do whatever she wants, and I totally support her ability to do whatever she wants, but it's also fair that many of us are hesitant about the fact that in a 48 hour period breeding of mixers is going to be changed forever.
If you don’t like the holiday stallions, don’t order one or use them.
The problem is it just may not be this simple. We don't yet know what these stallion's abilities would be. But it's very possible that if someone wants to stay relevant in mixers, they probably have to buy one (or even two or three through pinhooks). It's not as simple as just ignoring them because someone disagrees.
Last edited by Brandon Schultz 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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