GP Horse Sale

[Tammy Stawicki]

Quarterhorses can cross breed to thoroughbreds and then in turn cross breed to everything else, right? Isn’t the obvious solution to adding new bloodlines to these divisions just to fix the cross breeding with TBs so the results aren’t universally awful? Basically unlimited supply of new blood that already exists.

That and have separate limits for within breed and crossbreed so breeding to quarter horses can be more accessible/afordable for those with paints/appys that don't have quarter horse earning potential.

[Tammy Stawicki]

It’s no secret I wasn’t a big fan of the holiday stallion, but that was due to the sheer dominance of them. They were better than all of the homebred stallions, if these stallions truly won’t be as good as the best current stallions in each division and instead offer a diverse option for a broodmare with very common bloodlines and have potential as a broodmare sire and/or an OK to decent race horse, maybe the rare random slide great runner, then I’m a fan. I sincerely hope the stallions won’t be better than the top homebred sires, but if they offer a diverse line and are ok producers then I’m a huge fan because that is needed in some divisions. I hope these are the type of stallions that you use for diversity not for getting a potential world beater.

Anyway she says these things will not be as good as "son of paint". That is a very bad example to use as son of paint is like the top paint stud, A+ hypos all 3 divisions. freak machine. honestly just tell me they will hypo lower than the previous holiday studs and produce at a lower rate then the previous holiday studs and I will feel better about this.

Those holiday studs were a pain in the ass and I was so happy to see them all pensioning off, but it feels like...here we go again.

People are also upset because, in the past the Steward made these studs way overpowered. People aren’t very trusting that this is a well thought out move with good reason.

To me this idea is what it comes down to, how good will the sires be in relation to playerbred horses. I was definitely a person who in the early days of holiday sires thought people were overreacting with their angst but after seeing how things turned out changed my tune. Paint sprinters which is where most of my horses are have been particularly bad (with game created stallions siring 11 of the last 13 Steward's Cup winners). I was excited to finally be out of that to see what the homebred sires could do without as much game created competition, but now worried we're going to be right back where we were. And yes I own two holiday studs and I'm probably one of very few people for whom that is true so perhaps it's unfair of me to complain (though I have never stud either for $30,000 or more). One I brought in the sale for $22,000. He's obviously paid me back many times over for that and again one could argue it is unfair to want to deny others that. But the 2nd one I brought with only a few years of fertility left for $7.5 million. I will almost certainly lose money on him, but brought him because I was worried if I didn't someone else would and make him a private stud. Which goes back to the point of if this is about increasing diversity why not have the steward stand the stallions to make sure everyone can have access. And my last paint stallion is a beautifully bred homebred who earned $500,000 and is currently standing for a $5,000 stud fee and I can't get mares for him, because while he has produced a grade 1 winner as a whole he can't compete with the holiday sires and you obviously don't have to believe me but to me that is what has me concerned far more than not wanting to let others get the same success I did out of holiday studs.

Now obviously at the end of the day it's the Steward's game and she can do what she wants and maybe this time we all are actually overreacting I'd just like us to get to a point where homebred mixer sires were consistently competitive which I thought we were going to get to by default with the holiday sires all pensioning but now I wonder if will ever happen if they are going to be continually replenished.

[Flizan Hambletonian]

Just to be clear on the below, do you want the gender of the horse, or our gender? Asking for a friend!

Name (of horse, not you), Gender, Breed (Not Thoroughbred), and Distance

I laughed at this Asking for a friend....

[Brandon Schultz]

Can we know what divisions other players have picked? Maybe a running list of how many stallions/mares per division have been purchased so far (and that updates as players buy them)?

I might be interested in doing it if there's 2-3 in a division but wouldn't do it if there's 5+.

[Ken Lind]

Mixers were the only breed in the game not really influenced by the steward's hand and it was honestly really nice and one of the reasons I have stuck with it. You have to work hard in the division for success. It is not something you can purchase your way into. When i look at the current state of the mixer division, sure you have certain players that dominate in each division, but if you really look at the races that count, the big SC races or other G1 races, it is split pretty evenly. there are different players winning these big races every year.

Yes. Agree 100%.

[Tom Lin]

Michael's points are valid. The problem being the players are their own worst enemies. The majority of breeders give little to no consideration to out crossing and diversifying the breed. Em I believe is trying to get outcross stallions into the hands of the mass breeders. I don't think the new stallions will be commercially viable because it is stated that they will be "tier two" stallions. Most breeders aren't interested in tier two stallions. GP sires have always been an option towards diversification of the breed and are seldom used because they are viewed as less than top tier (even though Devon Castle is sired by one). No one has probably used GP sires more than me (trotters). Even with sponsored races including stakes they are seldom used. A week 8, 2yo mdn GP sire race was a walkover for my horse. Again most breeders appear to be not interested in diversity and future viability of their breeding "programs". This sale will put some diversity in the hands of the people that will use it. I doubt the new sires will be a financial windfall in terms of stud fees. My thoughts. Tom.

[Polk Buffalo]

While we are on this subject what is the deadline to place our requests before offer ends?

Good question! Let's say Friday morning at 8am Pacific.

I am a bit concerned about this. Such a major opportunity(?) and only a 32 hour window to place our orders? All players that do not log in today will miss this? I would quit if all other players got this opportunity and I missed it because.. (I can't actually find a reason not to login every day) whatever reason. I actually wouldnt quit but I would be a bit upset.

I think it would be fair to extend this window a little for all players to have an opportunity to place an order?

[Louise Bayou]

Well I had a whole big post and hit the wrong x and lost it so here goes again...

IMO, some of the ones against this are ones that owned some of the previous Holiday studs or bred a LOT to them. You got the best from the last round and bred MANY mares to these studs, got a GREAT barn out of it and a barn full of future stallions which is fantastic for you! No hate there because you spent the money for the stallions and worked the Sim to your benefit. But to now be so against it due to inbreeding and the "good of the Sim" seems kind of ironic since you were part of the problem with these studs as was the rest of us. Your barns are at a much higher level than some of us that didn't have the money to buy any of those stallions. I don't see the harm in letting others get a shot at what you got to do.

[Flizan Hambletonian]

While we are on this subject what is the deadline to place our requests before offer ends?

Good question! Let's say Friday morning at 8am Pacific.

I am a bit concerned about this. Such a major opportunity(?) and only a 32 hour window to place our orders? All players that do not log in today will miss this? I would quit if all other players got this opportunity and I missed it because.. (I can't actually find a reason not to login every day) whatever reason. I actually wouldnt quit but I would be a bit upset.

I think it would be fair to extend this window a little for all players to have an opportunity to place an order?

Hmm, Polk. I can give you a reason. What about birth of our baby? I don't think it will happen tonight, but you never know... But on the other hand, when Linus was born, Polk sat in a corner playing Candy Crush...

I can understand that several ppl here are concerned about their player bred stallions getting competition. But I think this sale is fair. Otherwise it's the same ppl getting the "good" horses at auction. I remember how important Smoke And Gusto was for me, and this gives more (newer/poorer) players oppotunity to get good horses! It's just a bit difficult to decide what type of horse to choose...

[Mr. Lord Rich]

Well I had a whole big post and hit the wrong x and lost it so here goes again...

IMO, some of the ones against this are ones that owned some of the previous Holiday studs or bred a LOT to them. You got the best from the last round and bred MANY mares to these studs, got a GREAT barn out of it and a barn full of future stallions which is fantastic for you! No hate there because you spent the money for the stallions and worked the Sim to your benefit. But to now be so against it due to inbreeding and the "good of the Sim" seems kind of ironic since you were part of the problem with these studs as was the rest of us. Your barns are at a much higher level than some of us that didn't have the money to buy any of those stallions. I don't see the harm in letting others get a shot at what you got to do.

Many of us were already breeding studs before the holiday studs were introduced and instantly all those studs were useless.
A lot of those so called holiday studs hit the public market once players found out they could pinhook them so it is not like everyone didn't have a fair shot at obtaining one. And to my knowledge most were available to the public for use and not privatized.

Again this is not about giving everyone a chance. This is about protecting the homebred studs many of us have worked hard to breed and if these new studs have a similar impact that the holiday studs did, we are taking 2 more steps backward.

[Polk Buffalo]

Hmm, Polk. I can give you a reason. What about birth of our baby? I don't think it will happen tonight, but you never know... But on the other hand, when Linus was born, Polk sat in a corner playing Candy Crush...

I can understand that several ppl here are concerned about their player bred stallions getting competition. But I think this sale is fair. Otherwise it's the same ppl getting the "good" horses at auction. I remember how important Smoke And Gusto was for me, and this gives more (newer/poorer) players oppotunity to get good horses! It's just a bit difficult to decide what type of horse to choose...

To clarify, I did not play candy crush when our son was born, but I might have played a few levels during the 30 hour session at the hospital...

[Shannon Hunt]

Not sure my opinion counts for much in this context as someone who wasn't around for the holiday studs and still has a pretty new/inconsequential stable with no studs I've produced on my own, but I guess I'll chime in anyway. The knowledge that I could just order a blank stud today and have it likely be better than any mixer I'll breed myself in the next ten sim years doesn't make me go "sweet, a leg up!" but rather "oh I guess current work won't matter much then". If I did have successful homebred studs, or second-tier studs doing okay, I'm not sure I would be happy about this. In my harness string, I've intentionally kept a number of mares with unusual pedigrees, or bred foals specifically because they will make good future outcrosses for DC/TCJS stallions. Am I winning any major races doing that? No. But I wasn't doing that in any other division either, other than a couple random TB slides. Do I have a healthy bloodline variety that will prevent genetic bottlenecking in my harness breeding plans for the foreseeable future? Absolutely.

Maybe bottlenecking really is a severe problem in some divisions. I dabble in most mixers, but mostly just race, I haven't deep dived into any division's pedigrees except for trotters. So, since trotters are the area I feel I do know pretty well, and Devon Castle was specifically mentioned in the reasoning for this move... I'm not really seeing it. He's been a super dominant sire, yeah, and maybe some people have shot themselves in the foot putting all their eggs in the same Castle basket? Seems unlikely, but if anyone out there is having trouble finding a stud for their Devon Castle daughter, here's a list of freak-producing stallions completely Castle-free:
King Cartier
Photobomber
Tls Immaculate
El Capitan
Devon Trickster
Tls Swashbuckler
Skip This Life
Drillbert
Trot Kristofer
Trot Marc
Drunken Marauder
Tls Bonus

If you don't mind inbreeding to his sire Wishing Stone, you can add Tls Pegasus, Tls Pegasus Flight, and Devon Rampage to that list. There are also still two holiday studs who are active and freak producers. Plus 8 GP studs besides Wishing Stone.

If other people feel like buying a blank stud is a great way to get some satisfaction out of the game, more power to ya, I guess. I'm not posting to represent all points of view, just my own, and I personally would rather work my way up, diversify my pedigrees through my own long-term planning. For me, the breeding game risks losing a lot of its fun when blank studs show up as an easy way forward.

I guess it all depends on how good these studs actually are. I'm not entirely certain how the numbers look between breeds and divisions, but I imagine that if these all have the same stats, some divisions are going to get studs who are pretty worthless and people will feel ripped off, while others may get some division-breaking monster. Or they'll all be low-enough tier that they won't outcompete homebreds in any division. I guess maybe arabian routers need that extra bloodline boost and can't manage that even with the help of the GP studs? I dunno. A couple generations of careful breeding of diversified lines should still move that inbreeding back far enough that it's not an issue. It's weird to me in general that these mixer types always get lumped into the same bag, despite being six different breeds (yes, QH influences appy/paint with crossbreeding, but the point is that there are still differences in genetic pools and general ability levels between breeds and divisions).

Just my two+ cents. Like I said, I'm probably not the right demographic to have a relevant opinion on this.

[Mr. Lord Rich]

Since the holiday studs, the steward introduced 3-4 made out of thin air studs in each breed and stood them herself for GP. For QH/Appy/Paint, these studs hypo with the best in their division, were offered for GP at first. but have since been converted to allow the option for sim cash use. So it seems like no matter what we do, there will be an influx of newly created studs being dropped into the mixer basket every 3-4 season whether they are sold to players or retained and stood by the steward.

QH:
Apocalyptical Jess (KY)
Blue Corazon (KY)
Deniro (KY)
Sunnysyde (KY)

Paint
Memoriesoflilhero (KY)
PHQ Goodbye Earl (KY)
Son of a Grip (KY)

Appy:
Appsolutely T (KY)
BG Spider Monkey (KY)
One More Last Time (KY)

Pacer:
Atochia (KY)
Tell All (KY)
Thinking Out Loud (KY)

Trotter:
Blue Porsche (KY)
Devious Man (KY)
Prayer I Am (KY)

Arabian:
Af Maher (KY)
Quick and Rich (KY)
Rb Burn (KY)
Tallaab Al Khalediah (KY)

What are we still trying to diversify?
RIP homebred stud owners and actually trying to make some income off your hard work of breeding a nice stud.

[Brian Leavitt]

Maybe we could make this broodmares only, so that we have the option take the mares and breed them to lesser used lines and already existent game point stallions to create new homebred outcrosses...?

[Cleo Patra]

Guys, the Thoroughbreds recently had additions similar to this via multiple GP auctions and the world hasn’t ended. I’ve really REALLY appreciated them in my turf router barn because I’m big on trying to create diverse bloodlines that will fit the stallion ranks 10 seasons from now but obviously I have a tonne of Two Toned blood and he’s got sons and grandsons dominating the stud book.

If you object to the idea of a stallion, grab a mare and try and get your game bred stallion out of them. In my view, mixers started off with such a small population that there will need to be at least 2-3 more of these influxes before the population will self sustain. That’s not a matter of player behaviour as such, it’s straight up pure numbers.