Unethical...

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Ken Lind
Sprinter
Posts: 83
Joined: 8 years ago
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Unethical...

Post by Ken Lind »

....to place known no potential mares in an auction where ratings aren't shown?

Just asking.
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T.D. Palm
Grade 3 Winner
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Location: West Chester, Pa

Re: Unethical...

Post by T.D. Palm »

Yes !!!
My 2 cents.
It's better to have it & not need it than to need it & not have it.
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Darcy McBride
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Re: Unethical...

Post by Darcy McBride »

IMO, yes. It leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. That is why I won't purchase/lease anything without the ratings listed. I guess that old caveat "Buyer Beware" is, sadly, so true. I've been burned before in my earlier years in the game, and learned to never purchase anything from certain folk ever again.
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Cleo Patra
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Re: Unethical...

Post by Cleo Patra »

I think it is unethical. That’s why I always have a catalogue for my auctions. If people have all the info and still want to buy something regardless, that’s for them to decide. Better to be upfront and AJ anything that doesn’t sell.
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Burgundy Hill Farms
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Re: Unethical...

Post by Burgundy Hill Farms »

While I tend to agree...two things to consider.
1. How many times have we had star or hen mares who consistently throw allowance foals? And the flipside...ever get a super random slide out of a some potential? I had a no potential mare throw me this gal back in the day https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=897074

2. There have been allowance Steward-breds purchased at TBS auctions...and we don't get ratings on those.

Jack Christensen
Derby Contender
Posts: 285
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Re: Unethical...

Post by Jack Christensen »

Phil Hoeflich wrote: 3 years ago While I tend to agree...two things to consider.
1. How many times have we had star or hen mares who consistently throw allowance foals? And the flipside...ever get a super random slide out of a some potential? I had a no potential mare throw me this gal back in the day https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=897074

2. There have been allowance Steward-breds purchased at TBS auctions...and we don't get ratings on those.
I agree that putting no potential mares in auctions is a little unethical. I also agree that putting allowances in TBS auctions is not in line with what you expect to get. But how did you get this horse:https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=897074 out of a no potential. That's insane.
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Gigi Gofaster
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Re: Unethical...

Post by Gigi Gofaster »

Well, I wouldn't do it (although some nice chaser mares are no potential on the flat so I'm excluding those), but I got this out of a no potential:

https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=249141

So yes you can hit a slide. That said, the odds aren't good. However, if you are referring to the horses I think you are, they are fillies with very nice pedigrees. If I'd ended up buying them, I'd probably have given them a shot with filly foals and see if I could reverse the trend and get a decent broodmare a generation down.

Now, here's what I do if a broodmare is for sale with no ratings listed and no offspring to consider - since you can't use the bloodstock agent when a horse in auction, I do a hypomate or two with some of the studs I know what I'd expect a formidable up to a hen to be able to nick. It won't tell you exactly what you are getting, but it will give a clue.
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Kelly Haggerty
Eclipse Champion
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Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Unethical...

Post by Kelly Haggerty »

A lot of things are unethical IMO, this is one. Putting a horse that just LOST a 1k claimer on the New Player sales page for $10k.....but not against the rules.
Jack Christensen
Derby Contender
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Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Unethical...

Post by Jack Christensen »

Kelly L Haggerty wrote: 3 years ago A lot of things are unethical IMO, this is one. Putting a horse that just LOST a 1k claimer on the New Player sales page for $10k.....but not against the rules.
I can agree with this. Many things are within the rules that SIM members would frown upon, and yet they are still allowed.
Art K Stables
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Re: Unethical...

Post by Art K Stables »

well usually just a hypo will tell you what you need to know anyway..
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Laura Ferguson
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Re: Unethical...

Post by Laura Ferguson »

I would view it more an unethical act if there had been a forum post implying that all mares were a certain rating or better. If an auction is put up, particularly one that says all must go, or partial dispersal, without ratings, I'm assuming that all ratings are on the table. This is especially true if the auction isn't paired with a bunch of horses being sent by the would-be seller to AJ - that situation screams buyer beware or proceed with caution. In the case of broodmares, especially ones without a bunch of foals, the hypos is one way to sort of insure yourself against getting a no potential or good mare.

That said, would I do it? No, even thought it technically is within the rules. I think someone who does do it should expect that in future sales/auctions, they'll have fewer bidders, and probably lower prices. To some people, that might matter. Others might not care.
John Nicholson
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Re: Unethical...

Post by John Nicholson »

As long as it’s not advertised as something it’s not can’t see the problem
Lucas Davenport
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Re: Unethical...

Post by Lucas Davenport »

I get frustrated seeing Forum articles like this because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there is no answer. So players can go back and forth, and the post can become divisive. So lets solve the problem by making all player auctions include the gallops/ broodmare ratings and even the late bloomer/progressive/peak info. Currently it really is just another way to squeeze a couple thou more GP's out of us, so raise the price up front. You want an auction, put all the info out there. No players trying to "outwit, outplay, outlast," the rest of us.
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Rebecca Rose Hepburn
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Re: Unethical...

Post by Rebecca Rose Hepburn »

Lucas Davenport wrote: 3 years ago I get frustrated seeing Forum articles like this because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there is no answer. So players can go back and forth, and the post can become divisive. So lets solve the problem by making all player auctions include the gallops/ broodmare ratings and even the late bloomer/progressive/peak info. Currently it really is just another way to squeeze a couple thou more GP's out of us, so raise the price up front. You want an auction, put all the info out there. No players trying to "outwit, outplay, outlast," the rest of us.
I like this idea
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Kelly Haggerty
Eclipse Champion
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Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Unethical...

Post by Kelly Haggerty »

Rebecca Rose Hepburn wrote: 3 years ago
Lucas Davenport wrote: 3 years ago I get frustrated seeing Forum articles like this because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there is no answer. So players can go back and forth, and the post can become divisive. So lets solve the problem by making all player auctions include the gallops/ broodmare ratings and even the late bloomer/progressive/peak info. Currently it really is just another way to squeeze a couple thou more GP's out of us, so raise the price up front. You want an auction, put all the info out there. No players trying to "outwit, outplay, outlast," the rest of us.
I like this idea
Here here
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