Private Stallions

[Danny Derby]

As for breeding thousands of foals, have you ever bothered to study the successful barns in this game? It's from breeding lots of foals in certain divisions. My thousands of foals are spread across 22 divisions. A Hall of Famer recently told me that they like to have around 300 mares in their main division. I see you have about 200 appy mares...don't you know anyone can throw 200 appy mares against the wall and sift a few good ones out of the crappys.

I'd like to think that I've got a pretty successful barn, and I've never bred more than 286 mares in a single season, usually far less than that. If anyone asked me (which no one ever does!), I'd advise them that they're far better off focusing on increasing the quality of their barn rather than the raw numbers.

[J.r. Lewis]

As for breeding thousands of foals, have you ever bothered to study the successful barns in this game? It's from breeding lots of foals in certain divisions. My thousands of foals are spread across 22 divisions. A Hall of Famer recently told me that they like to have around 300 mares in their main division. I see you have about 200 appy mares...don't you know anyone can throw 200 appy mares against the wall and sift a few good ones out of the crappys.

I'd like to think that I've got a pretty successful barn, and I've never bred more than 286 mares in a single season, usually far less than that. If anyone asked me (which no one ever does!), I'd advise them that they're far better off focusing on increasing the quality of their barn rather than the raw numbers.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do though Danny. Nobody is selling their top mares so my only hope is to breed them from within. Hence the big spend on stallions to keep my breeding costs somewhat in check. I don't have the luxury of time on my hands as I've started well after the expert trainers. Heck, I'm still just an Advanced trainer for 11 more months. I don't want to run 16000 races per season but it's a means to an end. Out of curiousity, what's the most DR mares you've bred in a single season?

[Danny Derby]

As for breeding thousands of foals, have you ever bothered to study the successful barns in this game? It's from breeding lots of foals in certain divisions. My thousands of foals are spread across 22 divisions. A Hall of Famer recently told me that they like to have around 300 mares in their main division. I see you have about 200 appy mares...don't you know anyone can throw 200 appy mares against the wall and sift a few good ones out of the crappys.

I'd like to think that I've got a pretty successful barn, and I've never bred more than 286 mares in a single season, usually far less than that. If anyone asked me (which no one ever does!), I'd advise them that they're far better off focusing on increasing the quality of their barn rather than the raw numbers.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do though Danny. Nobody is selling their top mares so my only hope is to breed them from within. Hence the big spend on stallions to keep my breeding costs somewhat in check. I don't have the luxury of time on my hands as I've started well after the expert trainers. Heck, I'm still just an Advanced trainer for 11 more months. I don't want to run 16000 races per season but it's a means to an end. Out of curiousity, what's the most DR mares you've bred in a single season?

Figuring that out would take way too much effort, but I'd be shocked if it was north of 140.

You'd really be well served by diverting your budget and instead of buying stallions to support bad mares, spend on leasing elite broodmares, buying TBS mares with amazing pedigrees, or flat out buying freaks from people (yes, people will sell freaks from time to time!). If you want to continue with the mass breeding hoping for the best stuff, do it with a cheap stud - the results won't be markedly different than if you do it with a $15M stud.

[Tamara Estes]

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Agreed. Making any future stallion additions game owned is the best bet, and would definitely draw money out over a longer period. I know I bred to some of them before the auction ended, to ensure I got into them.
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I know I did the same thing. I saw who was bidding on the horses, and knew I better get mares to them before the sale ended. Glad I did now.

[J.r. Lewis]

Figuring that out would take way too much effort, but I'd be shocked if it was north of 140.

You'd really be well served by diverting your budget and instead of buying stallions to support bad mares, spend on leasing elite broodmares, buying TBS mares with amazing pedigrees, or flat out buying freaks from people (yes, people will sell freaks from time to time!). If you want to continue with the mass breeding hoping for the best stuff, do it with a cheap stud - the results won't be markedly different than if you do it with a $15M stud.

I know this is an issue for you as you've mentioned Prince Louder and the "terrible mares" I send him in chat recently but I think "bad mares" is relative and paints a poor picture of what I'm trying to do. I rarely breed anything under formidable and have about 200 hens and 600 stars. I'm a math guy and have done extensive research in the SIM and I think you're mistaken if you think the results will be the same regardless of stud. A great mare can get a good hypo with a horrible stud and the opposite is true as well. Greatness on either side can lift the other up and while I realize my mares can't possibly be as good as yours or others who have been doing it longer, they're improving every season which is all I can ask for.

[J.r. Lewis]

I know I did the same thing. I saw who was bidding on the horses, and knew I better get mares to them before the sale ended. Glad I did now.

Interesting. Was there someone else you were worried about cuz I didn't bid in that auction until 5 minutes to go. Maybe this isn't as personal attack as it seems if people are worried about other people doing it too. That makes me feel better

[Joseph Depaulo]

I know I did the same thing. I saw who was bidding on the horses, and knew I better get mares to them before the sale ended. Glad I did now.

Interesting. Was there someone else you were worried about cuz I didn't bid in that auction until 5 minutes to go. Maybe this isn't as personal attack as it seems if people are worried about other people doing it too. That makes me feel better

aren't you causing a lot of drama considering you don't even play the game any more

Danny has his play style J.r has his at the end of the day the random slide is God the more chances you have the better the chance to get the slide of slides and get a freak freak freak horse. the slide holds us all hostage but in this case J.r is free do whatever you want with your stud the sim will go on. i just think these Stewie sales dont need these studs there a pain in the ass they cause problems, also i think they generally are seen as these godly hypoing machines but the last few we've had seemed to be disappointing maybe we have to take a minute and see how these guys produce before we go crazy i know thats not really the point but at the end of the day its his horse he put up the money if others wanted the horse there is nothing J.r could do if april eddy said mine its gone so let him do whatever im still gonna make fun of him J little case r

[Brian Leavitt]

I know I did the same thing. I saw who was bidding on the horses, and knew I better get mares to them before the sale ended. Glad I did now.

Interesting. Was there someone else you were worried about cuz I didn't bid in that auction until 5 minutes to go. Maybe this isn't as personal attack as it seems if people are worried about other people doing it too. That makes me feel better

aren't you causing a lot of drama considering you don't even play the game any more

Danny has his play style J.r has his at the end of the day the random slide is God the more chances you have the better the chance to get the slide of slides and get a freak freak freak horse. the slide holds us all hostage but in this case J.r is free do whatever you want with your stud the sim will go on. i just think these Stewie sales dont need these studs there a pain in the ass they cause problems, also i think they generally are seen as these godly hypoing machines but the last few we've had seemed to be disappointing maybe we have to take a minute and see how these guys produce before we go crazy i know thats not really the point but at the end of the day its his horse he put up the money if others wanted the horse there is nothing J.r could do if april eddy said mine its gone so let him do whatever im still gonna make fun of him J little case r

Joey, did you perchance write this while holding a drink in one hand?

Also, heh, slaves to the slide. Almost every successful homebred I had up until year 45 or so was a lucky slide, and only more recently have I felt like I have mares that can produce good horses without slides.

And even then, the last freak I bred before Antares was the slide of a lifetime!

[Joseph Depaulo]

Interesting. Was there someone else you were worried about cuz I didn't bid in that auction until 5 minutes to go. Maybe this isn't as personal attack as it seems if people are worried about other people doing it too. That makes me feel better

aren't you causing a lot of drama considering you don't even play the game any more

Danny has his play style J.r has his at the end of the day the random slide is God the more chances you have the better the chance to get the slide of slides and get a freak freak freak horse. the slide holds us all hostage but in this case J.r is free do whatever you want with your stud the sim will go on. i just think these Stewie sales dont need these studs there a pain in the ass they cause problems, also i think they generally are seen as these godly hypoing machines but the last few we've had seemed to be disappointing maybe we have to take a minute and see how these guys produce before we go crazy i know thats not really the point but at the end of the day its his horse he put up the money if others wanted the horse there is nothing J.r could do if april eddy said mine its gone so let him do whatever im still gonna make fun of him J little case r

Joey, did you perchance write this while holding a drink in one hand?

Also, heh, slaves to the slide. Almost every successful homebred I had up until year 45 or so was a lucky slide, and only more recently have I felt like I have mares that can produce good horses without slides.

And even then, the last freak I bred before Antares was the slide of a lifetime!

if i could have anything in the sim i would want a slide increase multiplier you can have maryland millions ill take my slide bump!

Drunk on life brian drunk on life

[Laura Smith]

f i could have anything in the sim i would want a slide increase multiplier you can have maryland millions ill take my slide bump!

I'll drink to that!

[Glenn Escobar]

I agree with much that is written here and also strongly disagree with much. I completely agree that, for many of us, this is very competitive. Tbh, I want to kick every one of ya'lls' butts. I want to win every race, every trophy, every Steward's Cup and every Simmy. At some point, however, your personal sense of ethics has to come into play and you have to ask yourself “does the end justify the means?”

A few SIM years ago Em wrote an open letter to the players here. In it she said, “You can expect that the management’s primary focus is to be sure that we provide an enjoyable, entertaining and realistic horse racing simulation game”. I assumed she meant it and it made sense to me, so I took it to heart.

There have been many days of controversy in the SIM and I suppose all of it has to do with personal ethics and justifying one's own actions. How many times has Em changed rules because players were so intent on winning that they skirted or openly violated rules? There used to be (and may still be) a rule expressly forbidding forming cliques or groups to prevent open access to stallions. I agree with the sentiment of the rule and I see private stallions as unrealistic and so I don't do it. If you can rationalize to yourself that this tactic is ethical then go for it.

Breeding thousands of foals in an attempt to overwhelm the odds and sift a few good horses out of the crap isn't rocket science. It's not impressive or amazing, it only requires time and lots of it. It's no surprise that these two strategies are employed in combination. Both are extremely unrealistic in my view and shouldn't be part of the game. Given no express rule violation, it's up to each players sense of ethics, realism and the importance of “winning.”

This post, which calls personal ethics into question, is the one that puts me over the edge and forces me to respond. Let us be clear that a SIM player’s chosen strategy cannot and should not be called out as a referendum on his personal ethics. This is completely and undeniably against the spirit of the game in all its forms — you read the daily reminder in chat not to speak in a negative way to or about any player, and the above quoted post is an egregious violation of that daily reminder. Unless that protocol reminder is uniquely applicable to chat and not the forum, this comment is out of bounds.

I know and I trust JR Lewis as a player of this game and as a friend. And shame, full and public shame, on anyone who would call a guy as kind and gracious as him into question on the basis of his game play. If you choose to play the game differently than he does, that is fine. But it is not an ethical or moral question. I will repeat and reiterate my point —— you may joke or jest or even criticize a chosen gameplay style. But to publicly question a man’s ethics in this regard is shameful.

You may not like the number of horses that he owns, or that be breeds. You may choose to play differently than him for your own reasons. You are free to make those choices. But you are not free to publicly slander a man and question his ethics or morals on the basis of his game play. It will not be tolerated now, and it will not be tolerated later.

[Dave Trainer]

I'm a math guy and have done extensive research in the SIM and I think you're mistaken if you think the results will be the same regardless of stud. A great mare can get a good hypo with a horrible stud and the opposite is true as well. Greatness on either side can lift the other up and while I realize my mares can't possibly be as good as yours or others who have been doing it longer, they're improving every season which is all I can ask for.

Which is probably why you don't see that breeding 2500 mares in a season is completely unrealistic and will lead to Em imposing more limits to bring more realism to breeding.

[Glenn Larson]

I stated my opinion and I stand by it. One of the great features of this SIM is the freedom to play in whatever style suits the individual owner/trainer. My sense of realistic game play might be different than every other player in our little world. I did not call out any one player individually. I attempted to reflect my own personal sense of realistic game play and tried to leave room for others to have a different view. I have no reason to believe that any player here is not the greatest person living, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with everyone's play strategy. I believe that mass breeding and partnership syndicates/private stallions are unrealistic and a detriment to the game. They may be a great way to win and may not violate any rules, but that doesn't make them "good." While I disagree strongly with the play strategy, it was not my intent to attack anyone personally. If the word "ethics" was poorly chosen, I apologize and suggest that "sense of realistic and fair game play" be substituted.

[Madelene Gilbert]

I won't really add much to the conversation, except to say that I believe the private stallion owners are 100% within their rights to play the game as they have; they aren't breaking any rules, and they shouldn't be chastised for how they've chosen to play.

I also agree that stallion dispersals should either be discontinued or another format found. I think a lot of the resentment and anger comes from a frustration that something that was meant to benefit the game as a whole has now come to benefit a select few, which was not the initial intent. If these were Steward-bred stallions using in-game pedigrees, I don't think there would be an issue. But these are fresh pedigrees meant to increase the diversity of the divisions within the game, and it sounds like the best way to make them available to everyone for that purpose is for the Steward to stand them like the GP sires.

Which is something else I noticed, and may explain the hostility towards the few private owners: The SIM has always been an open, caring and giving community, despite the competitiveness of the game. I know that I've always played in that spirit, and I know several other people who do as well. So when player behavior contracts those values, people are more likely to call it out. It might sound selfish, entitled, or whiny ("WHAA why can't I have this!") but I'd like to think it's because people get upset when they believe the communal foundation of the SIM is threatened.

[Polk Buffalo]

Breeding thousands of foals in an attempt to overwhelm the odds and sift a few good horses out of the crap isn't rocket science. It's not impressive or amazing, it only requires time and lots of it. It's no surprise that these two strategies are employed in combination. Both are extremely unrealistic in my view and shouldn't be part of the game. Given no express rule violation, it's up to each players sense of ethics, realism and the importance of “winning.”

This post, which calls personal ethics into question, is the one that puts me over the edge and forces me to respond. Let us be clear that a SIM player’s chosen strategy cannot and should not be called out as a referendum on his personal ethics. This is completely and undeniably against the spirit of the game in all its forms — you read the daily reminder in chat not to speak in a negative way to or about any player, and the above quoted post is an egregious violation of that daily reminder. Unless that protocol reminder is uniquely applicable to chat and not the forum, this comment is out of bounds.

I know and I trust JR Lewis as a player of this game and as a friend. And shame, full and public shame, on anyone who would call a guy as kind and gracious as him into question on the basis of his game play. If you choose to play the game differently than he does, that is fine. But it is not an ethical or moral question. I will repeat and reiterate my point —— you may joke or jest or even criticize a chosen gameplay style. But to publicly question a man’s ethics in this regard is shameful.

You may not like the number of horses that he owns, or that be breeds. You may choose to play differently than him for your own reasons. You are free to make those choices. But you are not free to publicly slander a man and question his ethics or morals on the basis of his game play. It will not be tolerated now, and it will not be tolerated later.

I read the post too, and saw the realistic view of it. I am breeding a few hundred foals myself set to be colts, gelded, and sent to Jaysman. Approximately a handful of them will ever make it to the racetrack (if I finally stop racing my claimers). Sending 95 of 100 horses away "at birth" is the unethic part of it as I interpret it. I never considered the man behind JR or myself as unethical in any way.... Polk on the other hand shouldnt breed horses just to get that geld money..
I have always wondered why the vet gives me money to geld a horse. I believe that charging 50$ per horse gelded and improving their ability a little might be more realistic..

Time for eurovision!