Race Placement

[Nena Olson]

I think if a vet check that told you if your horse was precocious or a late developer would also help you decide. If you have a horse that has done fairly well as a 2yo/3yo and then find out it was precocious, they could retire it. Or if they have a horse that is running like a donkey as a 2yo/3yo and find out its a slow developer (needs time to grow, etc.) people would keep those horses and not send them off to Green Pastures before they hit their best stride. I dont know if precocious/slow developing is passed on to offspring but this would also make it interesting... in RL people tend to know if a horse has sired precocious offspring and some also know if a sire sires horses that take more time to mature.

[Erin Sanderson]

As someone who stares endlessly at all the fields for her stakes horses, I *still* wound up in those two year old races you're talking about. All I had to go on were workout times and past speed figures (1 race each for every horse in the field).

Meanwhile, I have "stakes" horses that can't win upper level claimers against allowances and productives. They have the right equipment, are fit, well rested (but not too much), and are running at around the distances they've at least a couple times run their best races.

[Ryan Whitehead]

I'll admit I still have problems figuring out some of the distance preferences of my stakes TR's. However I encourage others to keep running outside their horses distance preferences in hopes of winning the Desert, Arc, or SC. I'll be elated to keep winning the Duty Free, Chicago Million, and Cox Trophy races.

[Te Akau Downs]

i guess alot of stakes are racing in allow/NW races to avoid the freaks they can't beat

[Carole Hanson]

I'll admit I still have problems figuring out some of the distance preferences of my stakes TR's. However I encourage others to keep running outside their horses distance preferences in hopes of winning the Desert, Arc, or SC. I'll be elated to keep winning the Duty Free, Chicago Million, and Cox Trophy races.

Ryan I remember you mentioning this in the Turf sim fantasy league, only reason why I decided to stick with up to 1 1/4 for King of Ashes and it worked so thanks for that little bit of wisdom!

Also, I do think those shorter races are starting to become more popular, partly due to the big prize money as well.

[Laura Ferguson]

I think if a vet check that told you if your horse was precocious or a late developer would also help you decide. If you have a horse that has done fairly well as a 2yo/3yo and then find out it was precocious, they could retire it. Or if they have a horse that is running like a donkey as a 2yo/3yo and find out its a slow developer (needs time to grow, etc.) people would keep those horses and not send them off to Green Pastures before they hit their best stride. I dont know if precocious/slow developing is passed on to offspring but this would also make it interesting... in RL people tend to know if a horse has sired precocious offspring and some also know if a sire sires horses that take more time to mature.

I keep saying the game rewards patience, and this is an example. I just hang onto my horses, and gallop every eight weeks. I don't pension horses after one gallop, and have picked up a number of horses discarded into AJ or claimers that do improve. Not a high percentage, but when they strike, they more than pay for all the ones that don't. That said, everyone plays differently, and some would rather not fool with the small percentage that one would hit, but I always view this proposed change as too much information - you can get to the same place with a little bit of patience. I'll also note that there _are_ sires who consistently have a decent number of offspring improve with age, and if fewer people discarded en masse, it would be easier to identify them. Sword was one, Sidney another. There's a couple of other routers that also fit into that category, but I'd have to go find my list, and breakfast is calling

[Carole Hanson]

I know Satono Moon has produced a couple of horses which ended up improving gallop, perhaps not surprising though because he jumped up to 'Stakes' from 'Claimer' at 2 as well.

[Kaine Saracen]

Sword was one, Sidney another. There's a couple of other routers that also fit into that category, but I'd have to go find my list, and breakfast is calling

That is a nice thought, and yes I have spent time trying to figure the late developing studs with the info given.... Comments that resemble “Late producing studs are unlikely to get precocious offspring”, so when I see a stud like Sidney who has the majority of his top earners as G1 winnng 2 and 3yo’s then I feel obliged to assume that sire is NOT one of the late bloooming types. If I have a horse whom I m told wants to be 4 and 5yo, then see that it’s best season was as a 3yo... Then I have to question that to. At this point in time, the only consistency I have found in identifying a late bloomer is the fact it all still appears to be random.

Out of 1500-2000 horses bred in my time here I am aware of less than 10, maybe as low as 5 that improved. For those sort of odds and no reliable way to assess the late types then I am not going to clog my stable up with a bunch of maybes when my allowance types struggle to win races of any note, no, I don’t waste time on claiming races because claimer don’t make studs and very very few claiming fillies make a broodmare of any value either.

Oh, only 33 foals this year, so it isn’t like I am trying to beat the odds with the numbers game either.

On a side note, if you wanted to share your “late bloomers” list, I would very much like to see it. Feel free to PM me

[Nena Olson]

I think if a vet check that told you if your horse was precocious or a late developer would also help you decide. If you have a horse that has done fairly well as a 2yo/3yo and then find out it was precocious, they could retire it. Or if they have a horse that is running like a donkey as a 2yo/3yo and find out its a slow developer (needs time to grow, etc.) people would keep those horses and not send them off to Green Pastures before they hit their best stride. I dont know if precocious/slow developing is passed on to offspring but this would also make it interesting... in RL people tend to know if a horse has sired precocious offspring and some also know if a sire sires horses that take more time to mature.

I keep saying the game rewards patience, and this is an example. I just hang onto my horses, and gallop every eight weeks. I don't pension horses after one gallop, and have picked up a number of horses discarded into AJ or claimers that do improve. Not a high percentage, but when they strike, they more than pay for all the ones that don't. That said, everyone plays differently, and some would rather not fool with the small percentage that one would hit, but I always view this proposed change as too much information - you can get to the same place with a little bit of patience. I'll also note that there _are_ sires who consistently have a decent number of offspring improve with age, and if fewer people discarded en masse, it would be easier to identify them. Sword was one, Sidney another. There's a couple of other routers that also fit into that category, but I'd have to go find my list, and breakfast is calling

As someone who races maybe 25 horses and has 1170 in her racing barn, I do the same LOL I just wish I knew without having to save them until they are 9 years old. Luckily I have my own barn so I dont HAVE to pay boarding but not everyone has the same luxury so I cannot fault people for tossing their claimer gallops. I rarely ever get an improver from these horses. A simple vet check saying 'this horse is a late developer' doesnt automatically mean the horse will become a freak... it could simply mean a productive became an allowance or a claimer even became a productive. Sometimes the whole 'they improve!' sounds like a myth. I know that, for example, Dragonfly was an improver but I see some barns have far more luck in that department than others... it would be fun to know if its the broodmares that cause this or not. Like if we had the option to vet check them to see if they were a late developer, you could see a pattern with your mares (oh 4 out of 5 of these mares foals are late developers? maybe I could send it to a sire that has successful 2yos!). If that makes sense.

[Joseph Depaulo]

Sword was one, Sidney another. There's a couple of other routers that also fit into that category, but I'd have to go find my list, and breakfast is calling

That is a nice thought, and yes I have spent time trying to figure the late developing studs with the info given.... Comments that resemble “Late producing studs are unlikely to get precocious offspring”, so when I see a stud like Sidney who has the majority of his top earners as G1 winnng 2 and 3yo’s then I feel obliged to assume that sire is NOT one of the late bloooming types. If I have a horse whom I m told wants to be 4 and 5yo, then see that it’s best season was as a 3yo... Then I have to question that to. At this point in time, the only consistency I have found in identifying a late bloomer is the fact it all still appears to be random.

Out of 1500-2000 horses bred in my time here I am aware of less than 10, maybe as low as 5 that improved. For those sort of odds and no reliable way to assess the late types then I am not going to clog my stable up with a bunch of maybes when my allowance types struggle to win races of any note, no, I don’t waste time on claiming races because claimer don’t make studs and very very few claiming fillies make a broodmare of any value either.

Oh, only 33 foals this year, so it isn’t like I am trying to beat the odds with the numbers game either.

On a side note, if you wanted to share your “late bloomers” list, I would very much like to see it. Feel free to PM me

You dare insult my claiming mares ! I can not let this stand good sir, this must end in death enguard !

[Kaine Saracen]

.........
You dare insult my claiming mares ! I can not let this stand good sir, this must end in death enguard !

Yes.... “En Garde!” Slap across the face with the glove and all that stuff. All you need to do to win this, is produce evidence that claiming mares produce more often than they don’t in general as a whole .

[Joseph Depaulo]

.........
You dare insult my claiming mares ! I can not let this stand good sir, this must end in death enguard !

Yes.... “En Garde!” Slap across the face with the glove and all that stuff. All you need to do to win this, is produce evidence that claiming mares produce more often than they don’t in general as a whole .

I perfer the fight to the death i think im at least a 3/5
Favorite.

Will showing you 3 claimed mared with million dollar horses work ?
There are quality horses to be found finding them through the junk is the trick.

[Kaine Saracen]

[quote="Kaine Saracen" post_id=398217 time=<a href="tel:1558191733">1558191733</a> user_id=7225]
[quote="Joseph Depaulo" post_id=398213 time=<a href="tel:1558188702">1558188702</a> user_id=22038]
.........
You dare insult my claiming mares ! I can not let this stand good sir, this must end in death enguard !

Yes.... “En Garde!” Slap across the face with the glove and all that stuff. All you need to do to win this, is produce evidence that claiming mares produce more often than they don’t in general as a whole .
[/quote]
I perfer the fight to the death i think im at least a 3/5
Favorite.

Will showing you 3 claimed mared with million dollar horses work ?
There are quality horses to be found finding them through the junk is the trick.
[/quote]

Only 3? I could show you hundreds of failures, 3 doesn’t even come close to justification for battling with claimers .... Where the 3 mares in question actual claimers or just better gallopers tossed in claimers?

[Joseph Depaulo]

[quote="Kaine Saracen" post_id=398217 time=<a href="tel:1558191733">1558191733</a> user_id=7225]
[quote="Joseph Depaulo" post_id=398213 time=<a href="tel:1558188702">1558188702</a> user_id=22038]
.........
You dare insult my claiming mares ! I can not let this stand good sir, this must end in death enguard !

Yes.... “En Garde!” Slap across the face with the glove and all that stuff. All you need to do to win this, is produce evidence that claiming mares produce more often than they don’t in general as a whole .

I perfer the fight to the death i think im at least a 3/5
Favorite.

Will showing you 3 claimed mared with million dollar horses work ?
There are quality horses to be found finding them through the junk is the trick.
[/quote]

Only 3? I could show you hundreds of failures, 3 doesn’t even come close to justification for battling with claimers .... Where the 3 mares in question actual claimers or just better gallopers tossed in claimers?
[/quote]

My dear friend i think we both misunderstood each other im not saying claimers i just mean fillies in clamming races i completely agree claimer gallop fillies aren't gonna be anything as broodmares

[Erin Sanderson]

Luckily I have my own barn so I dont HAVE to pay boarding but not everyone has the same luxury so I cannot fault people for tossing their claimer gallops.

That right there (and a dose of sheer aggravation at my blue hens who like to produce claimers) is a very large part of the reason that I always tossed most of my claimers, solids, and general underperforming annoyances that no one wanted to buy. I just bought Winged Tortoise Stables on a whim (I've always wanted my own farm, though), so my horses I'm not doing anything with can chill there now until I figure out just what to do with them.

it would be fun to know if its the broodmares that cause this or not.

I think it can be both. I have one female family in my barn that consistently produces later developers (Sway's descendants Through the Ghost and Fancy Her Kiss were both nearly sold as yearlings before I realized that the WHOLE family likes to throw late bloomers...they were both hard to tell/solid or worse). Since I'm aware of the trend, and they're very classy when they do come around, I tend to get less annoyed with them if they don't look like stars as yearlings. I have another couple of families that either produce things that gallop very high as a yearling or are complete duds and there is no in between. The ones of those that don't gallop well as yearlings go away quickly. Yet to see one of theirs improve in several generations with multiple branches of the families. As far as the studs go, I haven't really picked out any patterns of the sires who are now active. I used to have a few that I knew consistently got better older horses, but not any more.