Thoughts on Steward Breds

[Cleo Patra]

I think now the partnerships issue has been dealt with, and with the limits in place, that there isn’t too much wrong with Steward breds. There will always be someone who wants to whinge no matter what the system is, and that includes the no more stewbreds option. For instance, I’ve been swearing at the screen 3 times this season because horses have come on the market that I’d love to buy and have the cash for but can’t because I’m on my limit. However, five minutes later I’ve gotten distracted by something else and can’t even remember the name of the horse I wanted to buy.

So ideas for keeping stewbreds sustainable:
- keep simflation under control: the game already puts a huge effort into that, but if anyone ever has ideas toward it they should definitely put it up for discussion
- have at least one large format auction each season
- work extra hard at keeping the mixer divisions healthy and worth playing in so that people who don’t want to play in steward bred divisions can do so.

Also I think people need to remember that homebreds have been knocking it out of the park this year. Every time I see a list of races to be broadcast there seems to be a bunch of homebreds and they are often winning too.

[Stormy Peak]

If the "whining" remark was meant for my post, you didn't read it right.
Pete brought up the case of "haves" & "havenots" concerning Steward breds in the first sentence of his post. I made a suggestion about how some people could acquire a SB in a different kind of auction. I didn't whine; didn't pose an end of SB's and since I don't see any post in this thread calling for an end of SB's as you insinuated, I take it your rant was directed at my post.
Sincerely sorry if what I stated hurt your feelings.

Your post didn't even make a blip on the radar as far as my feelings go.
If I had been offended by what you said, I would quoted your post and/or mentioned your name and Told you I was offended. (just ask Pete about that...lol )
And I certainly never insinuated that this thread was calling for the end of Steward breds.

My post touched upon, how it seems like Every Year there seems to be someone whining about how they can't get a Steward bred...and often it's not the players that have been here for many Sim years, but newish ones, who want it all now, instead of working for it like those at the top did.

However, your post does fall into that 'entitlement' kind of attitude that I see more and more here on the Sim. People wanting to 'dumb down' the Steward bred auctions so that stables without big bank rolls can buy those top quality horses. It's an attitude that suggests that any stable should be entitled to own one of those horses...which can only happen by cutting off the richer stables from buying them.

I tend to think that those horses are almost like an optional reward for success in this game - and just like in real life, a guy with $100,000 bankroll in no way, shape or form, is going to go into an upper end auction and force some multi-billionaire from buying whatever horse they want... nor how many. The Sim, at least, limits how many a rich owner can buy in an auction, and I think that's a decent concession already.

My post, was though, mostly about the fact that a stable doesn't need a Steward bred to have nice horses. It is possible to bred homebreds that can and do successfully compete with Steward breds, and people can still get Steward bred bloodlines by breeding mares to Steward bred stallions. If you saw my first post in a different light than that, then the only apology I can give is that I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear.

Stormy

[Bertie Bassett]

I have only been playing the Sim for almost 3 weeks, so I am probably not the best person to comment on Steward Breds. The way I see it is the players who can afford these horses have been playing the game for quite a few years. The big money players were not given their money, they earned it, and I am sure most, if not all of those players put many hours into the Sim every week. I have no problems with the wealthier players being able to buy the Steward Breds at auction, they have earned the right to. I joined the Sim to have fun. After all it is a game and that is what games are meant to be. If someday I am lucky enough to be one of the big money earners I would have no hesitation in buying Steward Bred horses, but until that day comes I will be just as happy running with my claimers and hoping that one of them will at least get a first.
Oh and if anyone has any Steward Breds they want to give away just send them over.

[T.D. Palm]

To Stormy (I don't feel like quoting your last post); and, believe me, this is my last say on the matter; but when you say I have "an entitlement attitude", I beg to differ. Pete Vella wanted some suggestions; so I made one.
I don't care about SB auctions. I'll occasionally make a bid early & know that it will soon be topped. That's fine with me. As I said...I'm into standardbreds, almost totally.
Every day here, there's 2 to 3 dispersal auctions. Mostly it's newer players. I'm sure some of them just leave out of discouragement. Some of them, I'm sure did try their best. They believe they can't get anything competitive with the money they have & they can't get the money with the horses they have. Maybe they don't want to wait 4 RL years before they can brag about their SC eligible horse, like they see others doing on the forum.
Now that doesn't mean they should be given anything.But knowing if they can raise a couple of 100K, they might be able to snatch a reasonable TB...and that opportunity may just give them incentive to hang around longer.

Good night !!

[Lee Tuttle]

I have only been playing the Sim for almost 3 weeks, so I am probably not the best person to comment on Steward Breds. The way I see it is the players who can afford these horses have been playing the game for quite a few years. The big money players were not given their money, they earned it, and I am sure most, if not all of those players put many hours into the Sim every week. I have no problems with the wealthier players being able to buy the Steward Breds at auction, they have earned the right to. I joined the Sim to have fun. After all it is a game and that is what games are meant to be. If someday I am lucky enough to be one of the big money earners I would have no hesitation in buying Steward Bred horses, but until that day comes I will be just as happy running with my claimers and hoping that one of them will at least get a first.
Oh and if anyone has any Steward Breds they want to give away just send them over.

Not exactly how that works Bertie.
We can buy unlimited amounts of credits with real life money.
After our probation period we have access to the "exchange".
Using the exchange you can trade your credits for sim money, then use that sim money to buy stewardbreds.
So the notion that you need to wait and be successful at the game before buying them isn't true.

[Lee Tuttle]

I purchased a SB my 1st full season then pinhooked it for a nice profit.
I'm not a fan of homebreds that are bred blindly without seeing the actual data that makes up the pairing having to compete against stewardbreds that are created after being able to see the actual numbers that make up the pairing.
But I also love Em, the same of most of us on here. And if she enjoys breeding them, then she should continue.

With that I'd suggest a change with SB's:
*Only enough of them bred so that each active single player stable can end up with one per season.
*Put all of them into one auction and only 1 can be won per player.
*As Pete suggested, they cannot be resold prior to age 4. The only way they move is if there is a total stable dispersal.

This will allow those with the most cash to go after what appears to be the best SB's while leaving those that seem to be on the low end to be purchased by players with smaller sim accounts.
Of course there will still be some random involved just like RL when buying TB's. What seems to be a low end guy could end up being one of the better runners of that SB crop and one of the ponies that goes for big bucks could end up naggish. Fair play I'd say.

[Craig Mcgee]

No no and no...... I usually do not post on these matters as I am not a big player in TBs but enough is enough..... Yes we would all love to have our own stew bred but that is not logical......the way Em is running things with stewies is working noone can own upteen and corner the market....not all of us are able to or should be able too own a stew until we can earn or afford it......not only that Em has been more than fair with dealing with this matter....so come on SCs and festivus.....

[Gwayne's World]

I'm not in favor of penalizing success! Successful stables, those able to spend the big bucks, shouldn't be inhibited in any way from doing so! I'm not there yet but plan to be someday and would really resent it!

[Stormy Peak]

Lee Tuttle, I wouldn't say people here breed horses blindly. Some might not use the time to do a bit more research and breed blindly...but speaking for myself. I use the search section and I will look up stallions, broodmare stallions and take a look at what bloodlines are doing well with each other. I also take a look at how a stallions offspring are doing... the percentages of 'different careers' compared to allowance types, or allowance to stakes, and how many freaks the stallion might have. [need a Simperior to access that info with stud book though].

And with your idea... Why even bother with an auction if Everyone gets a Steward bred? (I even have that Oprah voice is in my head thinking about it...lol "you get a SB, you get a SB, Everyone gets a SB!)

I don't get the point of handing high quality horses out to people like they were lollipops being given to children.
Some newbees might even break them, or quit the Sim and leave them untrained, in limbo for weeks and weeks before they can be dispersed.

The Steward bred should be something people want to Strive for and earn them by learning to manage their stable, research and breed horses that will earn money for them, or claim or buy/sell horses that will earn that money. Also, people here can write articles or get a job doing things for other players, such as Rochelle Zahacy did with her horse naming services. Also someone mentioned that if a person has real life funds, they can buy GPs (which helps this site out) then use those GPs to exchange for Sim dollars...one could probably get enough Sim money to bid on a Steward bred that way too, if they want one bad enough.

I actually kind of wish the Sim had a Sim money savings account for players...that once Sim money is put in, it can't pull it out until the next Sim year or even have the option to lock one's self out for 2 Sim years - but if they really need to get to it, maybe put an access fee of 5,000 GPs on it or something.

One of my weaknesses in this game is saving money. I tend to help others out behind the scenes, and gift funds to players, or think I need to use GPs like I can afford them...lol. So I use up a lot of Sim money in the exchange, and really, I can do without a lot of those things I buy with Gps...like equipment checks on 2 year olds, rather than just being patient and continue with their works and gallops to figure it out.

I have a feeling others do similar things, and it's not a lack of money coming into the stable, so much as a lack of learning how to manage the money and save some so they can, in a future, put in proper bids for Steward breds.

New players in this game are 'stepped' up with grants of money and have parks just for their level. When I started in year 17. If I recall correctly, we got 1 free CAM, (create a mare) and $100,000 that was it. I think at that time, Trial Park was a few years old, and once you moved from new player status, there was no no junior or intermediate status, one just raced against more experienced players. So it was hard, and back then there were a lot of millionaires in the game, so nothing has really changed, it was just as hard back then to buy a Steward bred as it is now for most youngish stables.

But now at least, there is a process in place...one that can help newer players learn the game, and save money by not making big mistakes early on, as they are not allowed to breed horses immediately (thus possibility wasting money by breeding a dirt sprinter mare to a turf router stallion)...and if new players use all the knowledge they can find out there, they can be quite successful in a few short years and have the funds to buy high end horses.

I solidly believe, that there should be goals in life -- and that in the Sim, owning a Steward bred should be goal, a reward if a person wants one -- and that should not cheapened by handing them out to everyone.
If that should happen, I kind of wonder if a red hammer and sickle banner should be draped in the header of this site. Whats the point in competing in a game against others if everyone is equal?

I love it when my less than rich stable produces a high quality horse that blows by some Steward bred or very rich stable's homebred to win. There's a feeling of pride there that comes from have that patience, doing the work, and having the luck to bred such a horse. Someday, I probably will get serious, save my money and put in a bid on a Steward bred, and have fun racing it and later breeding it...and I sure don't want that achievement undermined by having one handed to me just because I exist in the Sim. I think working to earn the money to afford one, will be just as satisfying for me as the work I put in breeding my homebreds.

Stormy

[Tammy Stawicki]

- work extra hard at keeping the mixer divisions healthy and worth playing in so that people who don’t want to play in steward bred divisions can do so.

Along those lines would love to see something done with limits (like seperate limits within breed and crossbreed) so that players once again had a reason to lower stud fees for crossbreeding making it more accessible. Sadly I can't get the numbers on thoroughbred as they are to plentiful so this may not be a mixer specific problem but crop sizes in at least paints and quarter horses have been steadily declining over the last few years.

Also worth noting that while you can race without competition from stewardbreds making it much much easier to have success with homebreds on the racetrack the stallion market sadly is still dominated by game created horses that playerbreds struggle to compete with.

Back to stewardbreds
But before I better get back on task of stewardbreds before I get called out for having my own opinion. These stewardbred conversations seem to follow similar patterns. There is anger over those with excess stewardbreds, there are people that think it should be easier to get stewardbreds, there are people that say owning stewardbreds is a privilege not a right. I personally would like to see 2 things change.

I think at least a small subset of stewardbreds should be more accessible
I started playing the Sim in year 22. I did reasonably well to start got lucky with a couple thousand dollar sales page pickup that went on to be a stakes winner, had a friend give me a nice little handy stakes winner, had some nice allowance horses, etc. But certainly no superstars. Then in year 24 the steward created some new mares. Rather than auction their initial foals she put them on the sales page a few at a time. I was lucky to pick one up for $150,000. That filly went on to win $1.5 million and produce 3 millionaires 2 of which became successful studs. The next year the steward did the same thing I got a second filly for $450,000 (I had more money at that time) she also went on to be a millionaire. Having these horses that could compete it top races I became more active in the forum and chat. I got to know people. I became hooked.

I can't remember the last time I got a stewardbred for below $1 million. The majority I get don't earn back their purchase price these days and the fillies usually wind up being disappointing broodmares. I'm not saying this to say stewardbreds aren't worth it as I'll get to you almost need them to succeed in some divisions. I am just making the point that given the current pricing of stewardbreds you don't only need to save up millions to get one but you also need some other steady income flow to get you back to that point because there is no guarantee your stewardbred that you saved for years for is ever making its purchase price back. I actually don't have any yearlings because even having 10s of millions in the bank and a pretty healthy amount of cash coming in the prices on the ones I was interested in were so out of touch with reality I couldn't justify it.

I say all this because even being an established player who has paid her dues and put in the time to be able to afford stewardbreds I think we should think about ways to make at least a subset more accessible to newer players. Yes I know in real life not everyone can go to Keenland and buy that $13 million yearling that will likely never amount to anything but this is not real life it is a game. Games are supposed to be fun or else why play. And this game is more fun when you can have successful horses. And I feel like it is becoming increasingly challenging in thoroughbreds to get successful horses. I think limits on stewardbreds are a great idea, the larger auctions seem to help, closing the partnership loophole will hopefully help but if prices stay high I would love to see something that allowed a subset of horses to go for cheaper. Now I'm not saying we give every player a stewardbred every year or new players should get them right off the bat but yes I would like to see more people that have been playing for a few years able to afford one. And yes I know the exchange but not everyone can afford to burn through real cash like that.

I would like to see stewardbreds be less dominant
Also while I certainly think stewardbreds should be good in some divisions they are REALLY dominant. If you feel like the horses you breed can't compete with the stewardbreds of course there is going to be angst. Some numbers from who bred steward's cup turf mile race winners to make this point

Turf mile - 5 of the last 6 were stewardbreds
Filly & Mare turf mile - 4 of the last 6 were stewardbreds
Juvenile Turf - 5 of the last 6 were stewardbreds (and actually 8 of the last 9 were)
Juvenile Fillies Turf - 3 of the last 6 were stewardbreds

So the steward has bred 17 of the last 24 turf mile stewards's cup winners (70%) whereas no other player has bred more than 1 in that time periods and most none. Things weren't always this way. If you go back to years 30 - 36 the steward only bred 3 of the 24 turf mile steward's cup winners in that period. People still wanted stewardbreds back then but they weren't completely dominant the way they are today. I'm not sure what changed and yes I realize that this varies by division but I think if across divisions stewardbreds and playerbrad horses were on more of an equal playing field there would be a whole lot less angst.


Also I still stand by my wealth tithe idea to bring take some extra money out of the sim so people perhaps make their bids a bit more closely aligned to reality.

[Carole Hanson]

Let’s not forget Em puts a lot of time and research into breeding her mares (time which she doesn’t have) and I’m sure she wants to see her horses succeed. With all due respect, but new players just aren’t ready for a high quality stakes horse. Apart from racing them at the correct distance and surface and with the right amount of rest, you also need to be knowledgeable about their division in order to get the best out of them. You have to know how the schedule works, where your horse could fit in ability wise (North America? Europe? South America? Asia? Etc.), who his greatest competition is, how to workout the best schedule when aiming for a big race like the Steward’s Cup, to know when to give them an easy confidence building race and when to take a risk etc. There’s just so many things that go into managing a big horse that need to be learned through racing horses at progressively higher levels. You would much rather make mistakes on claimers and allowance horses than on could be champions.

And I also agree with Stormy that you can make a successful stable without a steward bred as your stable maker, as I have for example.

[Laura Smith]

I think the large-format auctions are by far the best way to go. One big auction with a couple hundred horses. Limit 2 or 3 per player.

Look at the 5YOs of this year, one of the more recent crops to mostly go to auction via one large sale, IIRC. Just a quick glance through the 2m+ earners reveals that more than a handful of them went for under a million. Average prices for these kinds of sales are WAY more reasonable, and it's because when you can only be high bid on, say, four or five out of 200, you really have to prioritize, not only your money but your time, especially at the end of the sale. This leaves lots of room for players with lower bankrolls who bid smart to score on underbids, and lots of room to find overlooked horses going for a song.

The multiple small sales, as we've seen recently, have the effect of jacking up prices enormously, because all the attention is on that one sale, there are only a few horses available, everyone wants one, and there is little to no possibility of finding a "diamond in the rough."

When the turf sprinters were all put up at once, in a small sale, first thing in the new year of Y53, I knew right away it was going to be cringey. 19 sold for about 50m, averaging about 2.6; nothing went for under 1, many were over 3, and three went for more than 5.
That huge, all-in-one sale of all the Stew-bred babies at once, now 5YO, back in Y50? 16 sold for 30m, an average of about 1.6m, top price of 4.1, at least three going for under a million and 11 of the 16 for 2m or under. One could argue that the Chimbo has inflated TS prices, and maybe that's true, but I am absolutely certain that even without that additional cash on the TS table, this most recent auction would have gone the same way. Players with money that really want a horse often want it regardless of what it costs or its potential for ROI on the track. Only maybe 12 TS have ever made more than 3.5m on the track, but they've been selling for far more than that for years, Chimbo or not.

[Doug Cuomo]

I think the large-format auctions are by far the best way to go. One big auction with a couple hundred horses. Limit 2 or 3 per player.

This, and the rest I didn't quote. As usual Laura is right on the money. This combined with the partnership changes seems the best way to handle it to me at least.

[Joe Bengston]

so I skipped a lot of reading on this second page. just too tired to read all of it. but first of all for inflation. sales tax. (probably not many in favor of this) but either the seller pays a fee to sell or the buyer does to buy and that fee goes to the sim. Another option would be a sales tax for both buyer and seller. Then there's two ways i see doing this either a flat fee (just for example say 10%) This should help take out money from the game. if not for all sales then just auctions or just stewbred auctions.

Honestly what's surprising is that not all the stewbreds turn out to be good. i say this because Em has access to all the data we don't have and aren't allowed to look at because that would be cheating. i forget what numbers she was talking about once but said we actually could do better with it. something like 15-16 or something. i've never owned a stewardbred i don't think so, but when i was against them i was only against them because i didn't see how it was fair to the rest of the breeders who aren't allowed access to the coding of the game but someone else is that breeds. obviously Em did a great job with the random discrete variables? i'm guessing is what the random slide uses for when we breed horses? or something like that for the races to.

now i realize one they all don't turn out good, two you still have to know what you're doing with the horses you own stewardbred's or not.


the other thing that won't change and i get it but i would love to see more homebreds in auctions/sales and homebreds going for the same prices as Stewardbred's. i'm selling my three harness mares for $1 i'm getting out of breeding.

i do like that Em gets to enjoy her game though and she deserves to. i'm an expert level player who's never won a Graded race and only been in one stewards cup which was a trotting race. I still think the Sim is great.

for you nerds https://www.toppr.com/guides/business-e ... variables/

and I think i was wrong it's probably pseudo-random numbers/code that is used. https://engineering.mit.edu/engage/ask- ... om-number/

[Joe Bengston]

I'm so tired i forgot the second option for sales tax it would be based on how much you're selling the horse for. or it could be a flat fee to put up for sale and then a percentage of whatever the asking price is for the buyer like anything under 1000 is .05% then over a million it's 5% or more. i have no idea what numbers would actually work for percentages so i'm just using random ones for examples.