Thoughts on Steward Breds

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Glenn Escobar
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Glenn Escobar »

Doug Cuomo wrote: 4 years ago
Laura Smith wrote: 4 years ago I think the large-format auctions are by far the best way to go. One big auction with a couple hundred horses. Limit 2 or 3 per player.
This, and the rest I didn't quote. As usual Laura is right on the money. This combined with the partnership changes seems the best way to handle it to me at least.
Right, I mean as Lucas D wisely pointed out somewhere in one of these threads, no one can buy more Stewies than there are Stewies available to them for sale.

Applied to this set of comments...........the specialized auctions made it so that every player that could afford to do so got 4 or 5 or 6 shots at the cream of the crops in a given division. That's not necessarily right or wrong, but it is how the prices go up, and the high quality gets consolidated.

The TBS Auctions have run a lot of different ways just in my short time here --- sometimes 2 or 3 auctions per year, sometimes 4 almost simultaneously, sometimes a parade of specialty auctions. It's fine to have it tried different ways, and in most cases those methodologies were spelled out pretty clearly by Em.

If the actual goal is to keep the quality high, but also keep the prices somewhat in check, then the answer logically seems to be that you would have a large sale with relatively tight parameters, and let the market sort itself out from there.
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Rochelle Bos
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Rochelle Bos »

Along the lines of what Glenn E was saying. The Stewardbred rules and auction sizes have been changed so much in recent years. Correct me if I’m wrong but from what I can remember we never even gave partnerships not being able to bid in Stewardbred auctions, mixed with larger auctions a shot 🤷‍♀️

We can’t keep changing things without giving the previous “fix” a chance...
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Tom Lin
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Tom Lin »

Laura Smith wrote: 4 years ago I think the large-format auctions are by far the best way to go. One big auction with a couple hundred horses. Limit 2 or 3 per player.

Look at the 5YOs of this year, one of the more recent crops to mostly go to auction via one large sale, IIRC. Just a quick glance through the 2m+ earners reveals that more than a handful of them went for under a million. Average prices for these kinds of sales are WAY more reasonable, and it's because when you can only be high bid on, say, four or five out of 200, you really have to prioritize, not only your money but your time, especially at the end of the sale. This leaves lots of room for players with lower bankrolls who bid smart to score on underbids, and lots of room to find overlooked horses going for a song.

The multiple small sales, as we've seen recently, have the effect of jacking up prices enormously, because all the attention is on that one sale, there are only a few horses available, everyone wants one, and there is little to no possibility of finding a "diamond in the rough."

When the turf sprinters were all put up at once, in a small sale, first thing in the new year of Y53, I knew right away it was going to be cringey. 19 sold for about 50m, averaging about 2.6; nothing went for under 1, many were over 3, and three went for more than 5.
That huge, all-in-one sale of all the Stew-bred babies at once, now 5YO, back in Y50? 16 sold for 30m, an average of about 1.6m, top price of 4.1, at least three going for under a million and 11 of the 16 for 2m or under. One could argue that the Chimbo has inflated TS prices, and maybe that's true, but I am absolutely certain that even without that additional cash on the TS table, this most recent auction would have gone the same way. Players with money that really want a horse often want it regardless of what it costs or its potential for ROI on the track. Only maybe 12 TS have ever made more than 3.5m on the track, but they've been selling for far more than that for years, Chimbo or not.
I agree wholeheartedly with Laura. The smaller sales had a huge impact on the cost of running TS horses.
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Dawn Palka
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Dawn Palka »

Rochelle Zahacy wrote: 4 years ago
We can’t keep changing things without giving the previous “fix” a chance...

Could not agree more--I'd wait a few SIM years to see how the changes change things. Patience people.
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The Steward
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by The Steward »

I haven't read this whole thread (it is long), but I just wanted to say that right now the biggest problem/road block to Steward-breds is real life. I'm really drowning trying to keep up with real life let alone the SIM.... and Steward-breds would be the easiest thing to make go away. Right now it's not at all a "fun way for me to play." It is solely a way to remove huge chunks of money from the game.... hence why I keep asking for good suggestions of how else to do that.
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Tony Baker
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Tony Baker »

It is solely a way to remove huge chunks of money from the game.... hence why I keep asking for good suggestions of how else to do that.
Apart from buying or claiming horses (which is optional for players to do in whatever volumes they prefer) My biggest expense this year is shipping (which is a mandatory expense for ALL players regardless of their stable size/bankroll if they want to play the game......has any thought ever been given to make a tweek/adjustment to the code that charges players for shipping ?...a 5 % adjustment (for example) would result in an extra 60K out of my stable alone.

I realize it's not much, but it would be a start or even a small part of other minor adjustments to draw some liquidity out of the game and it's a even expense for all players across the board.
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Ronnie Dee
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Ronnie Dee »

The Steward wrote: 4 years ago I haven't read this whole thread (it is long), but I just wanted to say that right now the biggest problem/road block to Steward-breds is real life. I'm really drowning trying to keep up with real life let alone the SIM.... and Steward-breds would be the easiest thing to make go away. Right now it's not at all a "fun way for me to play." It is solely a way to remove huge chunks of money from the game.... hence why I keep asking for good suggestions of how else to do that.
In the locked "Total Purses in the SIM" thread, Pete Vella revisited a couple of ideas that have been talked about for many RL years.
1. Increase the day rate.
2. Pay jockeys a percentage of their mounts' winnings.
Both would be very easy to code.

In terms of some time savings for you, I think Simperior would still be a great deal even if you stopped publishing "SIMperior Edge".
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Jon Xett
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Jon Xett »

I have four options rambling around in my brain:

1. since The Steward breeds horses using her wile and wit and that takes time; have The Steward breed all mares randomly in 30 minutes sans reason
1.a- the effect would be some really bad horses mixed in with some potential and a globally representative mix of claimers to rare freaks.
1.b- the effect could be to still drain money at the Steward Bred auction somewhat, on the off chance that the winning powerball foal was selected

2. since M. Moneybags Esq. can bid a ship-ton of money on a whim at auction, and because Snidely Ambush always $1 bids M. Moneybags; make the auction a one bid and done super secret anonymous auction - all bidders welcome
2.a- the effect would be that someone gets the overlooked freak for pennies on the dollar and anybody can win a foal with a serious, top bid
2.b- the effect could be that a lot of horses go unclaimed to which a random lottery drawing is held to determine owners of the unclaimed

3. big players on the top 40% hit list are eligible to be selected by the game to "donate" (nod and a wink) big chunks of money to the lower 30% of active, but struggling players. Random Sam says," sorry but you are required to donate 5 million to the Sustainability Fund, buh bye, and thank you for playing SIMHorseracing.com"
3.a- the effect would be shear gnashing of teeth and woe
3.b- the effect could be a much stronger game, a more enjoyable game and a longer lasting game

4. since the haves and naughts are so wildly divergent, introduce The Wry One to the haves, a fixer, a scourge, a plague and and and the equalizer who randomly makes your every move, your entry, your hypo-mate, your random slide, your statistics etc just ever so sucky for a year.
4.a- the effect would be that the haves are humbled for a period of time but they realize and appreciate that SIM is just like real racing only speeded up
4.b- the effect could be that the naughts are emboldened by The Right One, T.W.O's positive twin, who instills a hint of a boost in all things SIM for now

Good thing I am not serious huh? Good thing that I have no idea how SIM business works. Good thing that the SIM community is in my life.

Wait for it....................... All in fun, jX
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Stormy Peak
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Stormy Peak »

Don't let Jon on any committee. LOL

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Dom Behan
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Dom Behan »

The OP and now The Steward requesting ideas, here is my 2 pennies worth.....Steward establishes a Racing stable, then hires an Assistant trainer, Steward supplies 10/12 SB yearlings. That finishes Steward's hands on involvement, proxy trainer takes over. Stable functions as all others, board fees, train, race etc. SB's are DR only, since most money is in DR division. Stable cannot enter Derby, Pegasus, Dubai or Saudi Cup DR races. Steward supplies dozen yearlings per SIM year.
Any new RL or Created studs, entering the game, stand for the proxy stable. irrespective of division TB, Mixer. STDB and be subject to same limits, extensions etc as player owned studs.
Trainer should not be high profile player, perhaps one who has been around 4 or 5 years and has the time and inclination to get involved, ideally signing up for 12 month tour and continue to maintain present stable. Steward to decide compensation directly with player.
As a batch of runners end their 4yo year Steward would decide on any keepers for brood mares, potential studs. The rest can be auctioned off or given as prizes in Derby or SC quizzes. These horse could be classified as SBRacers and not impact any SB numbers limits and have a 2 Sim year 'Sell On' ban.
If the stable hits form, it can take prize money, stud fees and auction cost out of the game economy and the Steward may enjoy some of her horses running in her colours, without anyone calling a foul........who knows
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Joe Bengston »

instead of sales tax heavily increase the entry fee's for stakes races but especially Graded races and increase the nomination fees for Stewards cup races? i don't know lol

and this would probably be more work but the computer whiz the Steward can't create a program that would do the breeding for her? lol
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Joe Bengston »

for say 5 million (maybe less or more jets are expensive) you can buy a private jet to ship your horses. cuts travel time in half but since just buying it one time is only a temporary fix. the more you use it the quicker you have to pay to refuel it. which will cost you money and a good chunk. because of this you can choose to use it or use the standard way everyone is using now to travel. i'm thinking the bigger name horses would be the ones getting to special treatment of a private jet.

i can't afford it or one for just a million but i don't know just throwing out ideas.

now it would be awesome if using the jet gave your horse a small boost, however i understand the argument that this then only benefits the wealthy players. so it would have to just be to cut time for traveling. no boosts.
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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

Hmmm Dom’s idea is quite interesting however part of the reason steward breds exist is to pull money from the game and this would defeat the purpose :(
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Stormy Peak »

I wish we could try donations before forcing taxes or fees upon everyone to drain money from the Sim. Once the funds are in the donation pot...it can be burned for Festisus : )

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Lily Wilkins
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Lily Wilkins »

I personally enjoy the presence of Steward Bred horses in the game. Sure, it can be a little daunting to think about the fact that we basically have this godlike entity with access to all the code breeding horses that we either have to buy, or get stuck running against, BUT they don't always win and they give us access to some seriously amazing bloodlines.

That said, if The Steward is getting sick of keeping up on breeding and she's looking to phase TBS horses out, I would like to pitch the idea of a Stud Fee income tax. I literally just came up with this idea like five minutes ago, so bear with me. I'm thinking it would be paid on the side of the stud owner; let's use James Dean as an example here (sorry Todd, I don't mean to pick on you!). Using the Search feature, I quickly established that he has 88 foals so far this season, and only 12 were bred by his owner. That means that so far he's had 69 outside breedings at ~90,000 a pop (his fee went from 90k to 97k during the season, but i'm just going to use 90k for this example)... That adds up to over $6.2 million.

Now, imagine if a single player had a couple high-priced popular studs in their stable, as many of the big guys do. Those stud fees have the potential to be generating some serious income. When cash is transferred from the breeder to the stud owner, why not use that as an opportunity to remove some cash from circulation? Even a 15% tax on stud fees would help. I think the best way to do it would be to take it out of what the stallion owner receives. So if a stud has a $90,000 fee, the owner of that stud gets $76,500.
If you wanted to be really fancy about it, you could do tax brackets in order to head off the inevitable "I'm going to raise my stud's fee now because it's taxed" move people would pull. The higher the fee, the higher the tax.

It seems like a small change, but it has the potential to remove a LOT of cash from the game without putting measures like forced donations into place. Sure, there's a lot of cash in the game, but people have earned that cash. I don't think forcing them to give it away is necessarily the correct move.
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