Thoughts on Steward Breds

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Lee Tuttle
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Lee Tuttle »

End of season flat tax on stable balance
*10%, 25%, whatever makes the stew happy.
And

Beginning of season fee for amount of horse in stable
500 or less
No fee

501 to 1000
500,000 fee

1001 to 1500 total horses among all parts of stable
1,000,000 fee

1501 to 2000 ponies
1,500,000 fee

Etc...

The second fee would be a hinderance to the mass breeders. Who doesnt enjoy hindering those guys?
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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

Seems this post has been converted from thoughts on stew breds an how that should be handled to make things more fair to ways to take money out of the game.

We kind of had another post for that :(
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Lucas Davenport
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Lucas Davenport »

Going on the KISS principle: just run a huge Steward mare lease auction/s; maybe a two year one. Would bring in significant money and allow the mares back to EM to resume normal breeding activities if/when her time permits down the road. Allow maybe three/four mares per person.

I do not understand why it is not understood BY EVERYONE that you cannot drain the maximum money out of the game by limiting the number of successful bids by the players with the most money and at the same time allow the players with lower bankrolls better access to Steward-breds. You either open up the bidding so the horses get higher bids, and drain more money out of the game; or you restrict the bidding to allow players with less money a better chance at the Steward-breds and drain less money out of the game. You are pushing and pulling on the same string at the same time. And getting nowhere.
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Jo Ferris
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Jo Ferris »

Lily Wilkins wrote: 4 years ago That said, if The Steward is getting sick of keeping up on breeding and she's looking to phase TBS horses out, I would like to pitch the idea of a Stud Fee income tax. I literally just came up with this idea like five minutes ago, so bear with me. I'm thinking it would be paid on the side of the stud owner; let's use James Dean as an example here (sorry Todd, I don't mean to pick on you!). Using the Search feature, I quickly established that he has 88 foals so far this season, and only 12 were bred by his owner. That means that so far he's had 69 outside breedings at ~90,000 a pop (his fee went from 90k to 97k during the season, but i'm just going to use 90k for this example)... That adds up to over $6.2 million.

Now, imagine if a single player had a couple high-priced popular studs in their stable, as many of the big guys do. Those stud fees have the potential to be generating some serious income. When cash is transferred from the breeder to the stud owner, why not use that as an opportunity to remove some cash from circulation? Even a 15% tax on stud fees would help. I think the best way to do it would be to take it out of what the stallion owner receives. So if a stud has a $90,000 fee, the owner of that stud gets $76,500.
If you wanted to be really fancy about it, you could do tax brackets in order to head off the inevitable "I'm going to raise my stud's fee now because it's taxed" move people would pull. The higher the fee, the higher the tax.

It seems like a small change, but it has the potential to remove a LOT of cash from the game without putting measures like forced donations into place. Sure, there's a lot of cash in the game, but people have earned that cash. I don't think forcing them to give it away is necessarily the correct move.
I love this idea!! Stallions I feel are a great way to remove a bit of money from the game, they cost next to nothing to stand but the good ones are like an ATM. It's just finding a way that people can't cheat the system is difficult. Last year my stallions earned me $4,697,454, this year so far they've earned $3,229,742 and cost me only the day rate ($595 a year) and the one time $50,000 fee (I own the farms they're all at so no board). My only issue with it is I think that would cause people to make their stallions private, as with just about everything, people will find loopholes, standing a stud private would be a HUGE issue with mixers if people don't want to pay an income tax on stud income.
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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

Lucas Davenport wrote: 4 years ago Going on the KISS principle: just run a huge Steward mare lease auction/s; maybe a two year one. Would bring in significant money and allow the mares back to EM to resume normal breeding activities if/when her time permits down the road. Allow maybe three/four mares per person.

I do not understand why it is not understood BY EVERYONE that you cannot drain the maximum money out of the game by limiting the number of successful bids by the players with the most money and at the same time allow the players with lower bankrolls better access to Steward-breds. You either open up the bidding so the horses get higher bids, and drain more money out of the game; or you restrict the bidding to allow players with less money a better chance at the Steward-breds and drain less money out of the game. You are pushing and pulling on the same string at the same time. And getting nowhere.
I knew this from the get go. Stew limits and bid restrictions, one large auction Ideas all defeat the purpose of draining money from the game.

However at the same time there has to be some sort of balance to allow the smaller stables to have an opportunity to own a stewy or you risk the chance at losing players.
Bottom line, the players are the life and blood of this game. They provide the income to keep it going.

A mass lease option of the mares sounds like a nice plan in theory, but I’m afraid the same issues would exist as players would argue over not having access to the top mares due to having a smaller bank roll.

I do like that it would prob level the playing field a bit since the owners would have to breed their own horses and would not have the benefit of the stewards insight and magic touch. Unless you are denial most players by now have understood that a mare bred by the steward will most likely result in a higher quality horse than a horse bred by a player themselves.

We can go back to the argument that “the steward enjoys breeding and deserves to play in the game she created”. She recently mentioned that stewys exist more to take money out of the game and besides a select few special mares I guarantee you breeding is more of a chore for her, not a fun time.

Hopefully we can figure out the solution in the next couple seasons as I feel we have been beating this dead horse for the past 6 or 7 seasons and it’s definitely getting old.
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Tom Lin
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Tom Lin »

Jo Ferris wrote: 4 years ago
Lily Wilkins wrote: 4 years ago That said, if The Steward is getting sick of keeping up on breeding and she's looking to phase TBS horses out, I would like to pitch the idea of a Stud Fee income tax. I literally just came up with this idea like five minutes ago, so bear with me. I'm thinking it would be paid on the side of the stud owner; let's use James Dean as an example here (sorry Todd, I don't mean to pick on you!). Using the Search feature, I quickly established that he has 88 foals so far this season, and only 12 were bred by his owner. That means that so far he's had 69 outside breedings at ~90,000 a pop (his fee went from 90k to 97k during the season, but i'm just going to use 90k for this example)... That adds up to over $6.2 million.

Now, imagine if a single player had a couple high-priced popular studs in their stable, as many of the big guys do. Those stud fees have the potential to be generating some serious income. When cash is transferred from the breeder to the stud owner, why not use that as an opportunity to remove some cash from circulation? Even a 15% tax on stud fees would help. I think the best way to do it would be to take it out of what the stallion owner receives. So if a stud has a $90,000 fee, the owner of that stud gets $76,500.
If you wanted to be really fancy about it, you could do tax brackets in order to head off the inevitable "I'm going to raise my stud's fee now because it's taxed" move people would pull. The higher the fee, the higher the tax.

It seems like a small change, but it has the potential to remove a LOT of cash from the game without putting measures like forced donations into place. Sure, there's a lot of cash in the game, but people have earned that cash. I don't think forcing them to give it away is necessarily the correct move.
I love this idea!! Stallions I feel are a great way to remove a bit of money from the game, they cost next to nothing to stand but the good ones are like an ATM. It's just finding a way that people can't cheat the system is difficult. Last year my stallions earned me $4,697,454, this year so far they've earned $3,229,742 and cost me only the day rate ($595 a year) and the one time $50,000 fee (I own the farms they're all at so no board). My only issue with it is I think that would cause people to make their stallions private, as with just about everything, people will find loopholes, standing a stud private would be a HUGE issue with mixers if people don't want to pay an income tax on stud income.
Almost no one wants to pay taxes. Especially if the ones being targeted are a select sub set of players, in this case stallion owners. Private stallions would certainly be an option for some owners. Stud fees are more likely to rise. Why not take the opposite approach and put a 15% booking fee, veterinary fee etc. on every breeding paid by the breeder. It may not address the option of private stallions, but it might have the effect of lower stud fees. The 15% fee monies of course leave the game.
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Tom Lin
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Tom Lin »

Lee Tuttle wrote: 4 years ago End of season flat tax on stable balance
*10%, 25%, whatever makes the stew happy.
And

Beginning of season fee for amount of horse in stable
500 or less
No fee

501 to 1000
500,000 fee

1001 to 1500 total horses among all parts of stable
1,000,000 fee

1501 to 2000 ponies
1,500,000 fee

Etc...

The second fee would be a hinderance to the mass breeders. Who doesnt enjoy hindering those guys?
Having fewer horses in the game is not a positive in my view. The game needs bad/lesser horses as much as it needs good horses.
Lee Tuttle
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Lee Tuttle »

Having fewer horses in the game is not a positive in my view. The game needs bad/lesser horses as much as it needs good horses.
A reduction in the amount of horses bred isnt going to necessarily improve quality. Plenty of good matches get the wrong end of the random slide.
If anything, instead of Productive and allowance mares in the 4yo+ 3k races, we'd have mostly solids and claimers if the numbers were reduced. Which would give some racing use for everyones cast offs.
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Nena Olson
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Nena Olson »

Lee Tuttle wrote: 4 years ago End of season flat tax on stable balance
*10%, 25%, whatever makes the stew happy.
And

Beginning of season fee for amount of horse in stable
500 or less
No fee

501 to 1000
500,000 fee

1001 to 1500 total horses among all parts of stable
1,000,000 fee

1501 to 2000 ponies
1,500,000 fee

Etc...

The second fee would be a hinderance to the mass breeders. Who doesnt enjoy hindering those guys?
And that would be how I left the game. I rarely ever have over $1.5 mil and have a lot of horses. Not everyone with horses has money, you know. Some of the richest players have less than 500 horses.
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Jo Ferris
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Jo Ferris »

Nena Olson wrote: 4 years ago
Lee Tuttle wrote: 4 years ago End of season flat tax on stable balance
*10%, 25%, whatever makes the stew happy.
And

Beginning of season fee for amount of horse in stable
500 or less
No fee

501 to 1000
500,000 fee

1001 to 1500 total horses among all parts of stable
1,000,000 fee

1501 to 2000 ponies
1,500,000 fee

Etc...

The second fee would be a hinderance to the mass breeders. Who doesnt enjoy hindering those guys?
And that would be how I left the game. I rarely ever have over $1.5 mil and have a lot of horses. Not everyone with horses has money, you know. Some of the richest players have less than 500 horses.
Really not a fan, I have 2,131 horse total, that being said, the vast majority are pensioned (1,690), so using the "active" horses I'd be under 500 (441 total), but am (or was before the Tan Gent auction) one of the richer players. The amount of horses doesn't correlate to successful/richer players, it just means some people have different playing styles, me, I like a smaller barn, between 75-150 runners but at the same time I LOVE breeding so around half or more than half of my active horses are broodmares, I have a bunch out on lease at the moment so don't know how many broodmares I have but I'd say around 250. Some players like having hundreds or thousands of runners, some like less than 50, everyone has a different style and shouldn't have something that discourages large barns
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Money Run Low - 7.5k
Cass Ole - 5k
Mugello - 5k
All I'll Praise - 5k
Zandvoort - 10k

Paint:
Toby Flenderson - 15k
One In The Woods - 5k
We Can Be Heros - 5k
FLD Eclipse - 3.5k
Scooter - 3.5k
Lee Tuttle
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Lee Tuttle »

Jo Ferris wrote: 4 years ago
Nena Olson wrote: 4 years ago
Lee Tuttle wrote: 4 years ago End of season flat tax on stable balance
*10%, 25%, whatever makes the stew happy.
And

Beginning of season fee for amount of horse in stable
500 or less
No fee

501 to 1000
500,000 fee

1001 to 1500 total horses among all parts of stable
1,000,000 fee

1501 to 2000 ponies
1,500,000 fee

Etc...

The second fee would be a hinderance to the mass breeders. Who doesnt enjoy hindering those guys?
And that would be how I left the game. I rarely ever have over $1.5 mil and have a lot of horses. Not everyone with horses has money, you know. Some of the richest players have less than 500 horses.
Really not a fan, I have 2,131 horse total, that being said, the vast majority are pensioned (1,690), so using the "active" horses I'd be under 500 (441 total), but am (or was before the Tan Gent auction) one of the richer players. The amount of horses doesn't correlate to successful/richer players, it just means some people have different playing styles, me, I like a smaller barn, between 75-150 runners but at the same time I LOVE breeding so around half or more than half of my active horses are broodmares, I have a bunch out on lease at the moment so don't know how many broodmares I have but I'd say around 250. Some players like having hundreds or thousands of runners, some like less than 50, everyone has a different style and shouldn't have something that discourages large barns
I really couldn't give a toss who is rich or who is poor. The Stew wants to pull money from the game, then that is an option.
And also to make it clear, my suggestion is for total horses. Including everything in the stable. Active, retired, whatever.


Oh and I have another idea to irritate the status quo. It may not be original?
3% breeding fee. Everytime you breed, 3% of your stable balance goes out of the game. That's aside from the stud fee that you pay. So for those that mass breed and want to corner the market on certain studs and only share them with their pals for free...Merry Christmas or Happy Birthday or whatever :)
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Tom Lin
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Tom Lin »

Lee Tuttle wrote: 4 years ago
Having fewer horses in the game is not a positive in my view. The game needs bad/lesser horses as much as it needs good horses.
A reduction in the amount of horses bred isnt going to necessarily improve quality. Plenty of good matches get the wrong end of the random slide.
If anything, instead of Productive and allowance mares in the 4yo+ 3k races, we'd have mostly solids and claimers if the numbers were reduced. Which would give some racing use for everyone's cast offs.
I don't know if we come to a consensus on this. If someone is going to cull horses they are going to be the lesser ones. Lesser broodmares - formidable and below - will be bred less often. Of course plenty of good matches don't work out, but the % of successful matings that come from those matches is significantly higher.
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Tammy Stawicki
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Tammy Stawicki »

I stand by the wealth tithe.

We've had various threads about taking money out of the game. I think some good ideas have been floated about but stewardbreds of course take millions and millions out of the game and it is hard to come up with something else that would be in that range. The mare lease instead of foal/yearling lease would certainly help the steward out time wise but historically mare leases have not gone for as much as actual stewardbreds due to the fact that you don't get the steward's magic button pushing abilities with the lease.
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Dom Behan
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Dom Behan »

Pete Vella wrote: 4 years ago Hmmm Dom’s idea is quite interesting however part of the reason steward breds exist is to pull money from the game and this would defeat the purpose :(
SB auctions would continue as normal, removing money from the game economy. The Racing stable idea would remove additional money with new sire stud fees, any racers being sold off and eventually race winnings. ;)
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Nena Olson
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Re: Thoughts on Steward Breds

Post by Nena Olson »

Personally, I think if Em would stand some of the RL studs that stand for GP for game money instead... that alone would draw money out. Also, if she made it so that you could pay so much money after so many vet checks/gallops to get that piece.. it would also draw money out.
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