Bye Bye Steward Bred's

[Todd Lucas]

This may be a good thing, it may be a bad thing. It may benefit the new players who want to get a stew bred but can't because the veterans who have been here, who have put in the time to build up a stable, keep outbidding them. Or it may not. Time will tell.
Steward breds are the reason I want to make money in the sim. The sales are exciting. The potential to add something shiny to your barn is fun and gives something to look forward to. Outside of regular ongoing business related expenses and breeding to outside studs they are the only thing I save up my money for. Most players don't sell their best horses. With not having something to save up for, like a flashy well bred horses why would anyone sell their good ones?

[Jack Meyer]

Got it...I expect to see that next Derby Freak or that next mare of yours that has produced 6 straight freaks on the sales page...of course I'm talking about DR or TR TBs since that is where most of the money and big races and prestige goes

[Rochelle Bos]

Their top mares will never be leased out, they are usually decent, but not the top quality

I have leased plenty of top mares to the steward and have done plenty of swaps with other players.

If a player gives me the right deal, any of my mares can be had.

Please don’t assume this WILL NEVER happen just because you have not seen it or been involved with it.

Leasing a mare to Em gets you a stewardbred to race for better than free, because she generally pays you for the lease, AND you get a foal from the resulting filly. HUGE incentives.

Swapping a mare gets you new bloodlines. What could a newer player possibly offer other than money? Veterans don’t need the cash, so they have no incentive to lease anything for cash.

[Rochelle Bos]

I think the key here will be what replaces steward breds as a way to draw $$$ out of the SIM? Most sales of top horses, whether leasing a broodmare for cash, or selling off a stakes/freak yearling, is driven by the need to raise cash for the TBS auctions. Without some similar reason to raise $$$, what I think you will see is more mare swaps, as players want to diversify or leverage a mare in a division that isn't their favorite to get access to a mare in a division that is. So, I still think you'll see good mares in auctions - but more along the lines of lease the mares I don't have time/interest in breeding, rather than, I need to raise cash for TBS, so I'm putting some of my better mares in there to raise $$$ because I want to buy blueblooded yearling that will go for a sky high price. I'll be interested to see how this plays out, but my guess is it will be harder to access some of the better mares than it is now, unless you have a comparable mare to swap in exchange. For example, I turn down leases for cash all the time - I don't need more money - for my best mares, I'd much rather have the foal - but I do consider swaps.

I'll also note that by reverting to the two horses per auction limit, but can own unlimited, I think we're back to the previous problem of where players could work together to effectively give one player multiple horses from the same auction (I give you $X, you buy Y and then immediately sell me Y post-auction, and no one else in the SIM has a chance to buy the horse or bid more, because of the pre-auction deal). I'm surprised no one has raised the return of that particular problem so far in this thread.

I did mention Pinhooking way back early in the thread. And I’m likewise surprised that no one has mentioned it.

The pinhooking will be an issue again, with players giving others money just for the horses. Why wouldn’t a veteran give a newer player a couple mil to buy a horse in the newer player auction where they can probably pick one up cheaper than in the open auctions?

Someone who has tens of millions can just give someone ten mil to buy a horse in the open auction again.

It’s going to be another HUGE issue.

[Gigi Gofaster]

With no steward breeds this will absolutely favor the veterans with strong breeding barns.

I'm going to have to disagree with you hard there. Most newer players get a good breeding barn under them before they ever have any chance to get a Stewie. While a Stewie can help I know myself and many others have built breeding barns devoid of Stewie's and while they aren't anywhere near the veteran barns that's to be expected in every aspect when beginning.

Xander is 100% right here. Some people have 10-50 years of lines in their breeding barn. We have 5. That gap will ALWAYS be there. We’ll have 10, they’ll have 15-60. The best we can hope for now is snagging a nice lease in an auction like Danny’s, oh but wait, veteran players don’t lease out their best mares (unless you happen to be VERY lucky) so we get to pick cast offs, IF we can afford them

This is been a HUGE depressing point with the SIM for me, my biggest hope to get a competitive horse was managing to nab a stewie and getting lucky. Now it seems my only chance may be a random slide?

I’d disagree. I came into the game 27 sim years ago, when Eric and Laura and others were well established. I didn’t have a lot of Stewies for a long time (and my first one was an utter dud) - I had to build up running in claimers and allowance and gradually building up my own horses with research and experimentation, and by investing in divisions like trotters and chasers where less dollars could get better horses. Over time I narrowed the gap and I’m proud to say I’ve become very competitive in the game. Sure, I’ve had some yummy stewards, but my best horses - Devon Fancy, Devon Castle, look like a King (and all of his amazing descendants like King of Stars) - were not steward bred at all. Not a single one of my blue hen mares is a steward bred (and the majority were bred by me and don’t even have a steward bred in their tail female). Do I buy stewards now because I can? Sure. They are fun. But they are hardly the best of my program (with all due respect to Em):

Every single one of my sprint championship winners was a home bred (3 by me), and none of them were out of steward mares. One was out of a 50k purchase, and two were out of mares claimed for 5k and for 10K. That’s 3 grade one winners for a combined broodmare purchase of 65k. Look like a king I got through a trade. You really don’t need a handout to make the game work, but you do need commitment, time, and effort.

When I started I bought those ‘cast offs’ from those more experienced players and did my research to get bargain claimers. I focused on a few divisions and studied them. I put countless hours into the game. I worked hard for the success and it took a very long time.

Will early sim players always have more experience than you? Yes. Will they always be more successful? That’s not at all necessarily true. There are plenty of players who have made their way to the top and weren’t here at the start. The game has always been fair; but it’s never been easy.

To be honest, it’s a little frustrating to see people complain about how hard it is to get good at the game and demanding a level playing field for newbies when some of us have worked our butts off to get where we are, even if they weren’t here to see it. Especially when most of us have given tons back to help newer players get started. I do lease out my best mares; I did articles for years on trotters to help players learn the bloodlines and claim bargains. I sponsored new player only races for years. I messaged new players to give them a heads up when a choice prospect ended up in Jaysman’s. I still happily offer advice and answer questions. I’ve put a lot of time into giving back to help players get off the ground the same way I was helped, and none of it ever involved a change in game play to just make in inherently easier to get started.

that’s not the route many newer players seem to want to go anymore. They want stakes winners right away; they want expensive horses artificially put in their range so they can have an instant top class program. I’m not inclined to support any initiatives that change the nature of the game such that there are ‘handicaps’ that replace research and effort.

Your ‘only’ chance to get a competing horse isn’t a stewie or a random slide. It’s effort.

[Jack Meyer]

Gigi, I agree, nothing should ever be just given or handicapped to level the field in any way because it's work and effort that SHOULD get you what you seek in SIM. I see it too much now here where players think they should just get access to this and get access to that instead of working like we all had to do.

[Mr. Lord Rich]

Their top mares will never be leased out, they are usually decent, but not the top quality

I have leased plenty of top mares to the steward and have done plenty of swaps with other players.

If a player gives me the right deal, any of my mares can be had.

Please don’t assume this WILL NEVER happen just because you have not seen it or been involved with it.

Leasing a mare to Em gets you a stewardbred to race for better than free, because she generally pays you for the lease, AND you get a foal from the resulting filly. HUGE incentives.

Swapping a mare gets you new bloodlines. What could a newer player possibly offer other than money? Veterans don’t need the cash, so they have no incentive to lease anything for cash.

Not everyone will be willing to negotiate for their top mares, but I am. Nothing is stopping a normal sim player from offering me what the steward had offered me in the past. I still have use for sim cash so sim cash does mean something to me.

Nothing happens overnight. If a veteran player has put in years of breeding to acquire a nice mare and wants top dollar for it, they deserve it. You can make an offer in hopes it’s acceptable or wait a couple more seasons until you have the means to make a better offer.

I don’t understand what changes here besides steward breds eventually phasing our. Remember the words she used, phasing out. There is still time to acquire some nice steward bred blood in your barn.

[Carole Hanson]

You can aim for mares that aren’t world beaters but are classy producers. That way you can build up your bloodlines at a lower cost and it’ll give you more satisfaction in the end when you see that your freaky horse’s bloodlines consist of your own mares that you bred.

I also want to point out that getting steward breds has been easier than ever recently. Back when I started we had no limits on how many SB you could own, no proxy bidding so you had to snipe in auctions or pray for an unlikely underbid (especially meh when you live outside of the US because the auctions would often end at night time in Europe), the prices were generally higher and horses that were being pinhooked were going for higher prices. Yet we still made it work, players like Pete Vella and Danny Derby didn’t get so successful overnight or thanks to one steward bred. It takes lots of years to get huge SIM success (10+ years or so, it took me 10 years to get my Win % above 10 and it took me 16 years to get my first grade one winner). Back then people always used to say that patience was key in the SIM, that still applies today.

[Mr. Lord Rich]

Got it...I expect to see that next Derby Freak or that next mare of yours that has produced 6 straight freaks on the sales page...of course I'm talking about DR or TR TBs since that is where most of the money and big races and prestige goes

If you are speaking to me, then you are missing the point. You said no one is willing to sell their best mares. I am saying “I am” but that doesn’t mean I’m just throwing their in the sales page.

Can you contact me to negotiate a lease or swap?

You sure can.

[Mr. Lord Rich]

I think the key here will be what replaces steward breds as a way to draw $$$ out of the SIM? Most sales of top horses, whether leasing a broodmare for cash, or selling off a stakes/freak yearling, is driven by the need to raise cash for the TBS auctions. Without some similar reason to raise $$$, what I think you will see is more mare swaps, as players want to diversify or leverage a mare in a division that isn't their favorite to get access to a mare in a division that is. So, I still think you'll see good mares in auctions - but more along the lines of lease the mares I don't have time/interest in breeding, rather than, I need to raise cash for TBS, so I'm putting some of my better mares in there to raise $$$ because I want to buy blueblooded yearling that will go for a sky high price. I'll be interested to see how this plays out, but my guess is it will be harder to access some of the better mares than it is now, unless you have a comparable mare to swap in exchange. For example, I turn down leases for cash all the time - I don't need more money - for my best mares, I'd much rather have the foal - but I do consider swaps.

I'll also note that by reverting to the two horses per auction limit, but can own unlimited, I think we're back to the previous problem of where players could work together to effectively give one player multiple horses from the same auction (I give you $X, you buy Y and then immediately sell me Y post-auction, and no one else in the SIM has a chance to buy the horse or bid more, because of the pre-auction deal). I'm surprised no one has raised the return of that particular problem so far in this thread.

I did mention Pinhooking way back early in the thread. And I’m likewise surprised that no one has mentioned it.

The pinhooking will be an issue again, with players giving others money just for the horses. Why wouldn’t a veteran give a newer player a couple mil to buy a horse in the newer player auction where they can probably pick one up cheaper than in the open auctions?

Someone who has tens of millions can just give someone ten mil to buy a horse in the open auction again.

It’s going to be another HUGE issue.

If money doesn’t mean anything why would the newer player sell their precious steward bred when the horse will be worth more than the cash?

[Tom Lin]

I'm going to have to disagree with you hard there. Most newer players get a good breeding barn under them before they ever have any chance to get a Stewie. While a Stewie can help I know myself and many others have built breeding barns devoid of Stewie's and while they aren't anywhere near the veteran barns that's to be expected in every aspect when beginning.

Xander is 100% right here. Some people have 10-50 years of lines in their breeding barn. We have 5. That gap will ALWAYS be there. We’ll have 10, they’ll have 15-60. The best we can hope for now is snagging a nice lease in an auction like Danny’s, oh but wait, veteran players don’t lease out their best mares (unless you happen to be VERY lucky) so we get to pick cast offs, IF we can afford them

This is been a HUGE depressing point with the SIM for me, my biggest hope to get a competitive horse was managing to nab a stewie and getting lucky. Now it seems my only chance may be a random slide?

I’d disagree. I came into the game 27 sim years ago, when Eric and Laura and others were well established. I didn’t have a lot of Stewies for a long time (and my first one was an utter dud) - I had to build up running in claimers and allowance and gradually building up my own horses with research and experimentation, and by investing in divisions like trotters and chasers where less dollars could get better horses. Over time I narrowed the gap and I’m proud to say I’ve become very competitive in the game. Sure, I’ve had some yummy stewards, but my best horses - Devon Fancy, Devon Castle, look like a King (and all of his amazing descendants like King of Stars) - were not steward bred at all. Not a single one of my blue hen mares is a steward bred (and the majority were bred by me and don’t even have a steward bred in their tail female). Do I buy stewards now because I can? Sure. They are fun. But they are hardly the best of my program (with all due respect to Em):

Every single one of my sprint championship winners was a home bred (3 by me), and none of them were out of steward mares. One was out of a 50k purchase, and two were out of mares claimed for 5k and for 10K. That’s 3 grade one winners for a combined broodmare purchase of 65k. Look like a king I got through a trade. You really don’t need a handout to make the game work, but you do need commitment, time, and effort.

When I started I bought those ‘cast offs’ from those more experienced players and did my research to get bargain claimers. I focused on a few divisions and studied them. I put countless hours into the game. I worked hard for the success and it took a very long time.

Will early sim players always have more experience than you? Yes. Will they always be more successful? That’s not at all necessarily true. There are plenty of players who have made their way to the top and weren’t here at the start. The game has always been fair; but it’s never been easy.

To be honest, it’s a little frustrating to see people complain about how hard it is to get good at the game and demanding a level playing field for newbies when some of us have worked our butts off to get where we are, even if they weren’t here to see it. Especially when most of us have given tons back to help newer players get started. I do lease out my best mares; I did articles for years on trotters to help players learn the bloodlines and claim bargains. I sponsored new player only races for years. I messaged new players to give them a heads up when a choice prospect ended up in Jaysman’s. I still happily offer advice and answer questions. I’ve put a lot of time into giving back to help players get off the ground the same way I was helped, and none of it ever involved a change in game play to just make in inherently easier to get started.

that’s not the route many newer players seem to want to go anymore. They want stakes winners right away; they want expensive horses artificially put in their range so they can have an instant top class program. I’m not inclined to support any initiatives that change the nature of the game such that there are ‘handicaps’ that replace research and effort.

Your ‘only’ chance to get a competing horse isn’t a stewie or a random slide. It’s effort.

I wish I could have said this as eloquently as Gigi. To me this is how the SIM has always been for me and hope it continues to be the great game we all love.

[Mr. Lord Rich]

Gigi actually said it perfectly !!

[Carole Hanson]

Yep totally agree with Gigi!

[The Steward]

Another thing that I think players haven’t really considered yet in their responses, is that there are only a certain number of “good“ horses per year on the bell curve of all horses bred per year. If I breed 90% stakes horses, that number will get spread out amongst all the players instead. So let’s say the system targets 1000 stakes gallops a year, if you take my 300 out then that gets trickled down to everyone else on the “slide” too.

[Randell Johnson]

I have been playing since Year 29, and it took me about 17 (Sim) years to finally purchase a Steward bred, yet every year I was just as excited to try and win one. To me its the excitement and saving up that was the best part. The hunt for the treasure (no matter how it turned out), was what was so fun! Many millions later, and many Steward breds later - I still think that they are the funnest and most unique part of the game!

I do understand the opinions of having to work for it though, seems like all people (real world included) want more than they work for.

And as for breeding, I really don't find that aspect of the game as fun. I know that others out there are completely the opposite, but it has never really intrigued me. Guess I will have to try and change, but I will surely miss when they go away completely.