Points
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Rebecca Rose Hepburn
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2072
- Joined: 17 years ago
Re: Points
I do like the idea of giving points up to 5th place, albeit not giving out a ton for 5th place.
A horse is the projection of peoples' dreams about themselves - strong, powerful, beautiful - and it has the capability of giving us escape from our mundane existence.- Pam Brown
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Laura Ferguson
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 6548
- Joined: 18 years ago
Re: Points
I think the first idea would have to be thought through so as to not create unintended consequences. Also, what would rolling off points do to the overall points, etc., that are on the horse rankings?
I hate the second idea and think it is a solution in search of a problem. I believe the reason points only go three deep, and purses five deep, is that that is how the real life Derby points work, and how real life purses work. Some tracks have purses go to every finisher (albeit just a few $100), not just the top five. Having points go to fourth and fifth place would exacerbate the first problem (older horses that clunk up to fourth and fifth accumulating points).
Also, if you look at the Juvenile and Derby, while it is true an off the board finish puts you behind the eight ball, it is very, very rare that a horse runs fourth or fifth and then is excluded from the field. I looked at years 48 forward, and that happened to no one. Only twice during that time period was the Derby a full field, and neither time did that exclude the fourth or fifth place finisher. I'm going to note that historically, the fourth and fifth place finishers in the Juvenile do NOT have a good track record in the Derby. I also listed where the Juvenile winner finished in the Derby, plus where the Derby winner's final 2yo prep was.
Year 54 (Derby 16 runners)
Sceptre of Power - 10th Derby
Derby winner - Ratholos - 2nd Juvenile
Cthonic - 4th - did not run, raced Week 5
Kawhi - 5th - 11th Derby
Year 53 (Derby 19 runners)
This Is Our Year - 6th Derby
Derby winner - That Voodoo Youdo - won 2yo Marathon
Newt - 4th - 12th Derby
I Still See You - 5th - 7th Derby
Year 52 (Derby 19 runners)
Achievement - 7th Derby
Derby winner - Man in Motion - broke maiden Week 15
Theprinceoffools - 4th - 12th Derby
Royal Look - 5th - 10th Derby
Year 51 (Derby 20 runners - full field)
Merlin - 9th Derby
Derby winner - The King - won Greenspan Stakes Week 15
Titan Redeemer - 4th - 10th Derby
A Million Dreams - 5th - 13th Derby
Year 50 (Derby 15 runners)
Strike Revenge - 5th Derby
Derby winner - Fancy Shoes - won 2yo Marathon
Twice Upon a Time - 4th - 10th Derby
Tame the Wild - 5th - 9th Derby
Year 49 (Derby 15 runners)
The People's Horse - 2nd Derby
Derby winner - Owl Let You Know (filly)
Just You - 4th - 11th Derby
Risking Everything - 5th - skipped Derby, 3rd Week 4, 7th Baltimore
Year 48 (Derby 20 runners - full field)
Atlantis Pride - 6th Derby
Derby winner - Kingdom Come - won Louisville Jackpot W15
Wander Back to Me - 4th - 19th Derby
Follow Your Fate - 5th - 3rd Derby
I hate the second idea and think it is a solution in search of a problem. I believe the reason points only go three deep, and purses five deep, is that that is how the real life Derby points work, and how real life purses work. Some tracks have purses go to every finisher (albeit just a few $100), not just the top five. Having points go to fourth and fifth place would exacerbate the first problem (older horses that clunk up to fourth and fifth accumulating points).
Also, if you look at the Juvenile and Derby, while it is true an off the board finish puts you behind the eight ball, it is very, very rare that a horse runs fourth or fifth and then is excluded from the field. I looked at years 48 forward, and that happened to no one. Only twice during that time period was the Derby a full field, and neither time did that exclude the fourth or fifth place finisher. I'm going to note that historically, the fourth and fifth place finishers in the Juvenile do NOT have a good track record in the Derby. I also listed where the Juvenile winner finished in the Derby, plus where the Derby winner's final 2yo prep was.
Year 54 (Derby 16 runners)
Sceptre of Power - 10th Derby
Derby winner - Ratholos - 2nd Juvenile
Cthonic - 4th - did not run, raced Week 5
Kawhi - 5th - 11th Derby
Year 53 (Derby 19 runners)
This Is Our Year - 6th Derby
Derby winner - That Voodoo Youdo - won 2yo Marathon
Newt - 4th - 12th Derby
I Still See You - 5th - 7th Derby
Year 52 (Derby 19 runners)
Achievement - 7th Derby
Derby winner - Man in Motion - broke maiden Week 15
Theprinceoffools - 4th - 12th Derby
Royal Look - 5th - 10th Derby
Year 51 (Derby 20 runners - full field)
Merlin - 9th Derby
Derby winner - The King - won Greenspan Stakes Week 15
Titan Redeemer - 4th - 10th Derby
A Million Dreams - 5th - 13th Derby
Year 50 (Derby 15 runners)
Strike Revenge - 5th Derby
Derby winner - Fancy Shoes - won 2yo Marathon
Twice Upon a Time - 4th - 10th Derby
Tame the Wild - 5th - 9th Derby
Year 49 (Derby 15 runners)
The People's Horse - 2nd Derby
Derby winner - Owl Let You Know (filly)
Just You - 4th - 11th Derby
Risking Everything - 5th - skipped Derby, 3rd Week 4, 7th Baltimore
Year 48 (Derby 20 runners - full field)
Atlantis Pride - 6th Derby
Derby winner - Kingdom Come - won Louisville Jackpot W15
Wander Back to Me - 4th - 19th Derby
Follow Your Fate - 5th - 3rd Derby