Question About Colts ?

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Gwen Morse
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by Gwen Morse »

Nini Hunter wrote: 3 years ago
Gwen Morse wrote: 3 years ago I wrote a post about the economics of breeding in the sim. We need cheap sires. They're a potential source of upward mobility for struggling players. We don't need _bad_ sires but we need ... mediocre ... sires who are cheap. We need more being provided by experienced players, because experienced players who understand breeding also understand the trade-offs that need to be made. Cheap breeders need diversity in their lines just like rich breeders. You can't breed a band of (healthy) broodmares if you can only afford to use the same three sires over a decade.
I'd say that there are even decent to good sires that are cheap in every division. Sure, they will not be nearly as excellent as Dave Matthews Band, or Pinatubo, or Strong and Free, or See You Monday, or Brilliance, or Walk Off Grandslam, but they are there. And they can diversify your bloodlines, lift up your stable, and give you a good chance at offspring of decent quality. Additionally, I know many owners of expensive stallions are more than happy to work out a deal with newer players. Don't be afraid to ask.

Look at stallions' gallop stats in the studbook if you can. Weed out the mediocre. Mediocre will weaken your broodmare band and give you mediocre horses. You do not want that. Do not breed to cheap stallions just because they are cheap. You would be shooting yourself in the foot, in my opinion.

There are ways to succeed in this game for every player.
Thank you Nini for rephrasing what I was saying better than I could express. I used mediocre because it means "average", but it seems to have made things worse, probably because most people consider mediocre to be bad in some way. Sometimes when I'm struggling for the right word I get a little too literal. I should have chosen better.

I would say more but Dylan's nasty attitude has soured my mood so I'm done with this discussion. I just wanted to hank you for this response because it was very helpful for me.
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Dylan Christensen
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by Dylan Christensen »

I am also done with this discussion
yeah
Brandon Schultz
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by Brandon Schultz »

I wasn't even ever a part of this conversation but I definitely don't want to be now.
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Gwayne's World
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by Gwayne's World »

Dylan Christensen wrote: 3 years ago I am also done with this discussion
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Ali Hedgestone
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by Ali Hedgestone »

Gwen Morse wrote: 3 years ago You've also somehow managed to confuse a description of how struggling players can build up a broodmare band on a tight budget with "this is how every player in the game should breed".

The best way to get a broodmare band as as poor struggling player _who doesn't have millions to throw at the problem_ is to start at the bottom and breed up over time.

"Take those decent broodmares and send them to good stallions" presume players are starting with good broodmares. How did poor struggling players suddenly get their hands on decent broodmares?
I want to address this because I think it's important. There a lot of ways to play the SIM. There is no one right way to build an amazing barn.

Nini hit the nail on the head when she said there are a lot of decent (aka "good") stallions standing for 10k-20k. You just have to look or ask.
A lot of players have build barns off of discounted (or even free) mare leases from other players.
Others have build barns by claiming every mare under $15k with a good pedigree.
Some have build barns by saving and being super selective.
A few grabbed every horse they had the time to run and went crazy.

Starting at the bottom and breeding up is one way. But it is slow and painful. The SIM is a game of averages with a random slide. Breed a bottom broodmare to a bottom stallion and you will still have a bottom foal. With a slight possibility of a nicer foal or you could get an appreciably worse one.

There are also plenty of examples of breeding the best to the best and still coming out with a claimer.

I bred Invocation from a free formidable mare and a $15k stallion. Earned $4m on the track.
Buncha Yahoos was from a stallion I paid $3k for as a yearling and a mare I bought for $10k.
There are plenty of Dirt route stallions that have freak and stakes galloping foals on the ground for under $20k fee.

It's completely possible to build a good barn by focusing on pedigrees and not throw millions at your barn.
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The Harlequins
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by The Harlequins »

Morning all, well that thread went well :lol:

Guess the answer is a resounding NO to breed a low earner.

I think Andrews Quip was aimed at my horse and i found it very funny :lol:
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Carole Hanson
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by Carole Hanson »

Gwen, i know you didn’t specifically say those things but the tone of your post implied that there are a select few elite players (and I don’t count myself amongst those elites) who hog all the brilliant sires for expensive stud fees so the market needs those ok sires with low stud fees so that other players have any chance to survive at all. I just get extremely frustrated whenever this sort of thing is implied because there are tons of players in the SIM as evidence that you can climb to the top and be part of that elite. If that’s not what you meant then I do apologise, I didn’t mean to attack or offend you. If I see a new or struggling player doing that kind of thing on the forum, I feel it’s best to kick them up the backside and show them that it won’t be handed to them but it will happen if they work for it. Just annoys me when people say the game is unfair when it’s not.

But again I never did think that you were saying anything like that.

As for the breeding thing, I still think ‘breed the best to the best, and hope for the best’ is the best approach. That doesn’t always mean breeding to only the top 3 stallions in each category, because you have to diversify your bloodlines if you don’t want to get stuck in one place. But it does mean breeding your mares to a sire that will improve them. And like Nini says, there are a lot of them out there that stand at relatively low fees ($30,000 and below) and are actually very good. And yes sometimes fantastic breedings throw out duds but I’m sure ‘mediocre’ breedings have higher % of doing so, it’s just that our expectations for those breedings are lower so we don’t notice it as much.
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Katie Stepanian
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by Katie Stepanian »

Carole Hanson wrote: 3 years ago Gwen, i know you didn’t specifically say those things but the tone of your post implied that there are a select few elite players (and I don’t count myself amongst those elites) who hog all the brilliant sires for expensive stud fees so the market needs those ok sires with low stud fees so that other players have any chance to survive at all. I just get extremely frustrated whenever this sort of thing is implied because there are tons of players in the SIM as evidence that you can climb to the top and be part of that elite. If that’s not what you meant then I do apologise, I didn’t mean to attack or offend you. If I see a new or struggling player doing that kind of thing on the forum, I feel it’s best to kick them up the backside and show them that it won’t be handed to them but it will happen if they work for it. Just annoys me when people say the game is unfair when it’s not.

But again I never did think that you were saying anything like that.

As for the breeding thing, I still think ‘breed the best to the best, and hope for the best’ is the best approach. That doesn’t always mean breeding to only the top 3 stallions in each category, because you have to diversify your bloodlines if you don’t want to get stuck in one place. But it does mean breeding your mares to a sire that will improve them. And like Nini says, there are a lot of them out there that stand at relatively low fees ($30,000 and below) and are actually very good. And yes sometimes fantastic breedings throw out duds but I’m sure ‘mediocre’ breedings have higher % of doing so, it’s just that our expectations for those breedings are lower so we don’t notice it as much.
I think Gwen has been misinterpreted a little bit- namely that for the first few years those more expensive studs are not suitable for new players to spend the cash on with lesser quality mares. It becomes easier a couple of years in as the quality of mares you have increases. The word mediocre she has admitted was the wrong word- I think for new players, spending 20-30k on a stud of which there are many decent ones is a sensible decision.
Personally, she has her head screwed on and isn’t afraid to put the effort to build up, she is certainly not one of these ‘hand it to me on a plate’ newbies, nor does she hate those who have worked hard to get where they are with their barns.
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Carole Hanson
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by Carole Hanson »

You’re right Katie and I certainly don’t think Gwen is one of those players at all, like I said the tone of her original post just didn’t sit right with me, obviously I misinterpreted it and I have apologised for it.
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Dave Trainer
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by Dave Trainer »

I think "breed the best to the best and hope for the best" needs to be adapted slightly for new/struggling players. Breed the best to the best you can afford that crosses well" is my take on it. Do your research. As Carole says there are a lot of good studs out there who are cheap and one of them might be a better cross than the expensive stud.
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Nick Gilmore
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by Nick Gilmore »

I was feeling guilty for not getting back to you Frank. After reading through this, I’m glad I missed it. I guess the Steward did too, or surely she’d have locked it down, or something.
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The Steward
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Re: Question About Colts ?

Post by The Steward »

Nick Gilmore wrote: 3 years ago I was feeling guilty for not getting back to you Frank. After reading through this, I’m glad I missed it. I guess the Steward did too, or surely she’d have locked it down, or something.
I just read through it this morning after getting an email about it overnight. I know the forum moderator was keeping an eye on it yesterday too.

Swearing at each other aside (ahem), it's an interesting discussion to be had if you can do so peacefully. Play exactly the way you want to play (within the rules), and take all pieces of advice with a grain of salt. Everyone thinks they know how to do it best, but really you have to figure out what is best for YOUR gameplay.

I'm making a separate post about "good" sires that I think is interesting info (maybe just to me!)
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