Barrier Trials

[Dave Trainer]

The only problem I have with them is the confidence boost. It shouldn't happen, they should only be for experience and gaining fitness faster. They shouldn't be a quick fix for a horse that has lost confidence. I'm not saying any should lose confidence running in them but how can a horse gain confidence from finishing 10 lengths last?

Using Cleo's example I'm sure Winx didn't gain confidence from being beaten in a barrier trial she just got fitter faster.

[Carole Hanson]

The races were re-run not for the results, but for the time. I presume, the barrier trials were run like normal races, hence why Nena saw a sprinter beat her freak router and I saw a miler beat my freak router, both in the ‘route’ barrier trials. That’s why our router freaks ran a time that was 3 seconds slower, which is way below what they’re capable of. Now with the fix, the horses ran the times they were supposed to.

I asked The Steward in a different thread if barrier trials were essentially workouts in company, she said that I ‘got it in one’ (though full credit goes to Pete Vella on figuring that out). That means that the times of the trials should be very similar to those of workouts, which is now the case.

As for the confidence boost thing, I say keep it in. Otherwise the trials just give you fitness and experience, same as other exercises. So why should I pay 500gp to get my horse fit quicker when I can just be a little patient for free and get the same result by doing other exercises. Essentially, without the confidence boost thing, it renders the barrier trials useless and pointless.

[David Faulkner]

I had a horse that won today....so that should have been a confidence boost. However, with the 2nd, run... he came in second.
So If I understand this correctly...he Actually did receive a penalty.... his confidence boost was taken away from him!
Stormy

All horses get the same boost in confidence in a barrier trial no matter what. Even if you are last. So, no we didn't take anything away from him. That would be mean.

That is very good, since the idea, (I think) of these races is that the participants, get in shape, gain confidence, maybe arriving 4, or arriving first could indicate that one horse is a leader, another likes to run far behind. , and since it is only 5f, its advance is very short to finish closer.

but I think it is to adjust more to a horse maybe a horse arrives with 45% of condition, and another change with 95% of condition there could be the difference in the results

is not a way to get an idea of how it should be

Now if it were contrary, it would be terrifying, since Danny's Freak came last with more than 12 lengths well. I think they will have to ride on a road to finish the races.

[Carole Hanson]

As for people annoyed at the results change, are you annoyed that now you get a realistic view of what your horse can do? Would you rather the result didn’t change and you found out the hard way that your horse wasn’t actually as good as you thought it was?

Yea yea I know, sure, now I can talk since my horses won both of theirs, but I wasn’t annoyed at their placings. I was fully prepared to finish last as long as my freak didn’t run 1:01.52 when she had regularly been able to pull off sub 58 works.

[Andrew James]

As for people annoyed at the results change, are you annoyed that now you get a realistic view of what your horse can do? Would you rather the result didn’t change and you found out the hard way that your horse wasn’t actually as good as you thought it was?

Yea yea I know, sure, now I can talk since my horses won both of theirs, but I wasn’t annoyed at their placings. I was fully prepared to finish last as long as my freak didn’t run 1:01.52 when she had regularly been able to pull off sub 58 works.

Thank you for saving me a much longer rant.

[David Faulkner]

Yeah, feel like we were lied to a bit...we were told that this would be a way to judge how our horses stack up against each other but it seems like that is very much not the case after seeing times and finishing positions.

i'm not sure what was actually said trials would be for, but i'm not convinced that gaining knowledge was the intention of these trials. One wise person in the recent Q & A with the steward, asked if the original purpose of GP had changed. The steward replied something like, "no, GP are intended to help people find out stuff faster, that hasnt changed", so GP are intended to gain knowledge about equip etc.
However it is clear from the dozens of confused comments here, that nobody is learning much at all from trials. It is pretty clear the real intention of the trials is to wipe out negative confidence. Wiping out bad confidence is nothing to do with learning information by any stretch of the imagination, it is only about gaining an advantage. so the gap between people who buy GP to use on trials or anything else, and those who do not, just got even wider.

Barrier Trials boost confidence, gain fitness, give experience, and count as a workout. For that alone they are certainly more than about gaining an advantage. As you can currently buy 1,000 GP on the exchange for S$4,000 even players who don't pay the SIM can easily access a barrier trial or two for their horses. I honestly don't care if my 2yo router walks the 5f distance of a barrier run. I don't want them mature enough to tear up the track W1 anyway. The gain all the same benefits from running last as the do first. So who cares if we get places or times. AND now you get to check with the jockey too.

I do hope this game is not going to develop into "pay to win or lose" as i have walked away from so many games where it is obvious i have little or no chance to compete on anything like a level playing field. I know the game needs to make money but i think there could be others ways to get it. SIMperior players already get a massive advantage from fatigueless shipping alone plus other benefits, now they, and anyone else using trials,need never have confidence problems. Most of my horses i picked up from other players who gave up on them, so i have a barn full of low confidence horses i expect, so how do i compete now.
Just adding on ways for GP buyers to get an advantage isn't a good way to go, unless you only want GP buyers to play, or intend to split the game into 2 divisions, i.e those who pay and those who do not. I'd really prefer not to have to walk away from this game, it's a really good game

1. First class shipping is available without SIMperior. I have SIMperior and only use it for my late shippers. So not an advantage. You can use it too.
2. It's not that difficult to find a race with 0 entries. A horse will earn confidence from a walkover too. Doesn't matter if it's the wrong distance/surface.
3. As long as The Steward owns the game, it's never going to be a pay to win or lose game. Period.

I want that offer of 1000 GPs for 4K

[Dave Trainer]

[quote="Carole Hanson" post_id=420773 time=1592831346 user_id=8707

As for the confidence boost thing, I say keep it in. Otherwise the trials just give you fitness and experience, same as other exercises. So why should I pay 500gp to get my horse fit quicker when I can just be a little patient for free and get the same result by doing other exercises. Essentially, without the confidence boost thing, it renders the barrier trials useless and pointless.
[/quote]

So you're saying you pay 500 GP to run in them to gain confidence and wouldn't otherwise. That is the one thing normal training can't provide so that gives an advantage to those who have lots of GP over others. That is unfair. The use of GP shouldn't be to get something others can't get through normal training and racing.

I know the argument about race placement but how many stakes races for older horses do you see with only 1 or 2 runners?

[Fern Thompson]

I agree, Dave. I won't be doing it again. I've wasted far too much real money on game points for nothing. Absolutely nothing. I still don't have enough to get the right equipment, which I think should be done differently. Why can't the equipment be known after six tries, five tries, or whatever? I always use the trainer to get the first piece, but the second piece often requires tons of patience that I don't have. Once again, you have to be a millionaire to really exceed in this game and get extra advantages. "Pay to win or lose?" Well, that is certainly something to consider.
Time for some thoughtful re-evaluation....

[Laura Smith]

I agree, Dave. I won't be doing it again. I've wasted far too much real money on game points for nothing. Absolutely nothing. I still don't have enough to get the right equipment, which I think should be done differently. Why can't the equipment be known after six tries, five tries, or whatever? I always use the trainer to get the first piece, but the second piece often requires tons of patience that I don't have. Once again, you have to be a millionaire to really exceed in this game and get extra advantages. "Pay to win or lose?" Well, that is certainly something to consider.
Time for some thoughtful re-evaluation....

Even if you've tried six different, incorrect equip combos, you can get the confirmed correct equipment for $5k after the horse's sixth start. So you don't even have to spend the GPs to pay the trainer if you're willing to use workout times to guesstimate equipment for the first couple starts.
I spend GPs to find equip for maybe 5% of my barn, if that, and the rest is done using workouts and Ask the Jockey. I firmly believe that this is a totally viable way to do things.

For the people who think this was a waste of game points, I again have to ask why? Your horse got a fitness, experience and confidence boost. What else were you hoping for? Now that it's "fixed", and the results are as intended, if you were using the trials to assess your horse's relative quality, well, you got it, so...

[Laura Ferguson]

A few thoughts - with any new thing, a little patience is warranted. They found a problem and fixed it.

As for confidence, if barrier trials didn't exist, I could sponsor a greatly restricted allowance or classified allowance right now for 2,000-3,000 game points and get a confidence boost that way. The cheaper price and no downside in terms of confidence opens this approach up to more players with a smaller game point budget. The fact that you can ask the jockey to check equipment is an unexpected bonus (I could see using it on horses with the dreaded bandages comment, so you can figure out which bandages are correct prior to actually racing the horse).

That said, confidence is one piece of a ginormous formula. The most confident claimer in the world isn't going to beat a freak on a losing streak. Even with confidence, if the other horse is fitter, on a surface they love, etc., the barrier trial isn't going to necessarily guarantee a win next out. I've run horses in confidence building races, and sometimes they win next out, and sometimes they go right back to losing.

Now, it may not be for everyone, but I can see a real use for it in certain situations - a horse coming off layoff, a horse that suddenly jumps up in gallop that you need to get fit or get that second workout in before it debuts, and yes, in some cases, a 2yo before it debuts. It's not a one size fits all tool, but I think it will have its uses, and provides an option that is a little different that what is currently available to get a horse fit.

[Nena Olson]

As for people annoyed at the results change, are you annoyed that now you get a realistic view of what your horse can do? Would you rather the result didn’t change and you found out the hard way that your horse wasn’t actually as good as you thought it was?

Yea yea I know, sure, now I can talk since my horses won both of theirs, but I wasn’t annoyed at their placings. I was fully prepared to finish last as long as my freak didn’t run 1:01.52 when she had regularly been able to pull off sub 58 works.

My horses still sucked/placing didnt change so... Im annoyed that my freaks aren't freaky, yes But I'd have been annoyed either way LOL

One of my freaks has yet to break his maiden (just jumped to freak) and didnt win his barrier trial so I am hoping his confidence boost and fitness will help him do that LOL

[Dylan Christensen]

Why are people complaining that barrier trials now do what they were originally intended to?

Big thanks to the SIM team for listening to our complaints and fixing this. Means a lot!

[Tammy Stawicki]

Do we know regular training does nothing for confidence? I remember it hinted many moons ago that some training might help a horse with a severe case of seconditis build up some needed confidence

[Andrew James]

Do we know regular training does nothing for confidence? I remember it hinted many moons ago that some training might help a horse with a severe case of seconditis build up some needed confidence

I always thought "train with a pony" helped with confidence but don't remember where I heard that.

[Andrew James]

Why are people complaining that barrier trials now do what they were originally intended to?

Big thanks to the SIM team for listening to our complaints and fixing this. Means a lot!

This.