Breeding Fee

[Veritas Stables]

I haven't read the entirety of the last 14 years of posts, so maybe this has been discussed at length already. And it also seems like some things have changed in the game since this topic has come up last, so I thought I would bring it up again.

To summarize my newbie understanding of the landscape:
- Love them or hate them, TBS Auctions will go away (I actually can't find this statement anywhere now, but I feel 95% confident I read it multiple places)
- The Auctions take somewhere around 800M of cash out of the sim
- There are some recent measures introduced to act as a cash drain (e.g. first class shipping)
- But there is still a substantial cash drain that would be needed to take excess cash out of the Sim
- Ideas that amount to some kind of tax are generally hated (booo taxes!)
- An understandable balance is needed so any cash drain doesn't overly impact New Players that cannot afford it and need a little more cushion in the early days.

Which brings me to breeding fees. I have seen this mentioned but it was brought up in parallel with the tax idea and it seemed all comments focused on taxes. It seems to me that a breeding fee would be a great way to drain cash out of the Sim. Really new players don't do any or very little breeding so it wouldn't impact them much. It has the added benefit of making an owner think twice about breeding lower quality Mares to low Stud Fee stallions and reduces some of the volume breeding. For most intermediate players, they don't own high quality stallions so your are already paying on average $25K+ for Stud Fees. Not sure a $5-10K fee changes behaviors drastically.

Which brings me to the rough math. Looks like there are around 25K TB foals per year and another 15K of other breeds (rough estimates). A $10K fee per TB and $5K for non-TB would suck about $325M out of the sim each year. Not bad. And I don't think the fees are so high that it would significantly impact most breeding. Yes it changes the breeding calculus a little bit, but frankly it is probably good that money generation from breeding becomes harder. Makes the sim a little harder, thus a little more realistic.

Please roast away. I look forward to the comments.

Cheers!

[Danny Derby]

Yes let's have a thread about tax and fee ideas, it's been a while!!!! I propose a $20K fee for each button press, but only $5K for new players.

[Anna Leroux]

This would frankly put small time players like myself out of the game. This would put breeding to run claimers out of the ballpark. I don't think these things should happen. It would up the quality of horses bred more than already has making it harder for smaller players, and newer players to be successful. Players would be choosing wisely which mares to breed or not.

[Laura Smith]

Players would be choosing wisely which mares to breed or not.

Uh, we *should* be choosing wisely which mares to breed or not. Even mass breeders don't breed every mare they come across (correct me if I'm wrong, mass breeders!)

I don't hate this idea. I think $10/5k is a little much. Something based on stud fee might make more sense (to be charged even if you breed to your own stallion) but that would be hard to execute, as people would game the system by lowering their fees to breed their own mares, etc.

Even if it was $2k/1k for a breeding fee, it's more realistic. This is not the foothills of Wyoming where mares just get themselves bred and then show up back at the herd with a baby eleven months later. I assume horse ultrasounds aren't cheap.

[Andrew James]

Couple of quick notes.

The Steward sales this year pulled out 350ish and 300ish million for the 1 and 0 year olds respectively.

A breeding fee is just a tax with a different name

[George Knatz]

Players would be choosing wisely which mares to breed or not.

Uh, we *should* be choosing wisely which mares to breed or not. Even mass breeders don't breed every mare they come across (correct me if I'm wrong, mass breeders!)

I don't hate this idea. I think $10/5k is a little much. Something based on stud fee might make more sense (to be charged even if you breed to your own stallion) but that would be hard to execute, as people would game the system by lowering their fees to breed their own mares, etc.

Even if it was $2k/1k for a breeding fee, it's more realistic. This is not the foothills of Wyoming where mares just get themselves bred and then show up back at the herd with a baby eleven months later. I assume horse ultrasounds aren't cheap.

As one of the guiltiest mass breeders you are correct. I don’t breed everything. I only breed formidables or better that hypo at least B+ (A- for mixers). I am almost to the point of not using formidables anymore, as I am closing in on 1000 mares that are star or better

[The Steward]

Just a random note not related to the thread, we went from $2.3 billion in the SIM economy (not counting my own money) a SIM year ago, to $1.5 billion after the foal auction, the lowest number it's been since Year 35ish. Woot woot! Now give me the rest of your money.

[Kent Saunders]

Just a random note not related to the thread, we went from $2.3 billion in the SIM economy (not counting my own money) a SIM year ago, to $1.5 billion after the foal auction, the lowest number it's been since Year 35ish. Woot woot! Now give me the rest of your money.

Maybe we should just keep the Steward Breds since were doing so well at the present time

[Andrew James]

Just a random note not related to the thread, we went from $2.3 billion in the SIM economy (not counting my own money) a SIM year ago, to $1.5 billion after the foal auction, the lowest number it's been since Year 35ish. Woot woot! Now give me the rest of your money.

Maybe we should just keep the Steward Breds since were doing so well at the present time

This

[Craig Mcgee]

Look Up
yes and yes lol
I own no Steward breds but love hearing all the complaints and high notes after a stewie auction.

[Anna Leroux]

Laura what I meant was in regards to breeding was players who are lower level may be put out of the game. Players who have larger stables or the better mares with proven results will only breed those mares causing a ripple effect to the lower levels of racing where smaller players sometimes do well because they don't have to have the Derby winners, or producers to compete and win. For 10k a pop on a 20k fee that's a bit much. Now I mean I could see maybe like stallion limits, once a player has bred let's say 50 mares then paying a fee for every mare after that. But 10k is to much. A player, like myself, who is not playing where I used to, I'd hate to have yet another restriction in this game like a "fee" on breeding on top of paying to send mares to stallions.