Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

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Lily Wilkins
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Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Lily Wilkins »

I have this filly: https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1135380
She's a Stakes DR, so it's not like I expected her to be a world-beater, but I am somewhat shocked that I haven't been able to get her to break her maiden yet. In fact, once you look at her record you'll see why she has me ripping my hair out. I figured that with her bloodlines, she would be better than this.

I'm wondering if someone who is better at "SIMing" than me has some insight? Could she want to go further?
I put her in a Barrier Trial last week to see if I could "reset" her by boosting her confidence... She got her butt kicked and had a sluggish time, but I'm trying to not let that bother me because I know it was still beneficial. She is currently entered in two possible races; one is at a distance she has tried, and one is further than she has tried. I guess I'm trying to see whether putting her in that longer distance is smart or not; it would be a shame if she went from getting on the board, to totally losing.

I was hoping she would be precocious and know what her job is, because my goal was to retire her at three :lol: it would be cool if she could at least break her maiden before that! Oh, and if you think I'm an idiot for wanting to retire this horse at three, please speak up. I have a nasty habit of prematurely retiring fillies because I enjoy breeding more than I enjoy racing.
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Jo Ferris
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Jo Ferris »

I can't speak for anything racing (or breeding) wise with TBs, but coming from someone who loves breeding, no shame in retiring her at 3, with those lines, if she's not winning and not an improver, time to be a broodmare. Of course she could be a dud broodmare too, but that's up to you to decide if you'd be willing to risk that or keep trying her as a racehorse. One of my best broodmares (FLD Ruby) was a progressive stakes, OTB in 8 of 11 starts and I have zero regrets retiring her at 3, it also cracks me up because the dog she's named after was *this* close to being a breeding dog, breeding team wanted her, just was found to have a heart defect in the very last step to being pulled for breeding.
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Ash Tarasin
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Ash Tarasin »

I would probably let her stretch her legs. Starting at 11/4 miles to 11/2 miles, letting her go further if she showed she wanted that. Most of the horses in her immediate pedigree wants to cover ground, and more ground. It is possible 11/8 miles are just a warm-up for her.

Has she already peaked? Is that why you think she ought to have been precocious?

I would not shy away from the 11/4 mile race you have picked for her. It is possible that I am wrong and she doesn't want to be there either but her workout-times are brilliant, her pedigree even more brilliant (and she's got a pretty headshot), are you going to retire her at three without even knowing how she would have run over the derbydistance and longer? How would you know who to breed her to if you don't know what she wants? :)
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Stormy Peak
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Stormy Peak »

When she last galloped...what did it say about her maturing...late bloomer, progressive type, or at/near peak?
Does she like mud, or love dry? And how sound is she?

Also, have you Double Checked her equipment? I once raced an allowance horse with the SW as I had misread a gallop hint that was actually SR -- I think the F8 and FB can be mixed up too kind of easily.

The dam's sire... was a marathoner type... but the dam and the sire, seem to like that 1 1/4 distance. So maybe that is all she needs to, is a little more distance than 1 1/8th? She might even take after her dam's sire and need 1 1/2 mile races.

I think workout times can be a good indicator of potential, but sometimes not. I've had several stakes and even a freak or two, that if you looked at their workout times, they were not at all impressive. Also that barrier trial came just about 1 week after a race, and from what I understand the barrier trials are almost as challenging and tiring as a race. So she could be really tired for that Week 4 race...and again, the distance is one she's already tried. Maybe a bit of rest and that 1 1/4 mile race might be a better choice?

I also see she's been shipped to like Asia and such... 1st class keeps a horse from getting shipping tired...but it's also added time to shipping. And if I got this correct..... say a horse ships 14 hours to a track, then back again. That's 28 hours of time that it's not at a barn resting...where a horse gets it's best rest. And then say you rest the horse for one week, then enter again to a track that will be a 6 hour ship...again 1st class.
So now your horse has lost 34 hours (almost a day and a 1/2) of barn rest (plus some time while at the track waiting for the race which will probably be the next day). That could be a disadvantage if it's competitors were also racing every other week for a few races, but only shipping their horses 1st class for 4 or 5 hours round trip. (If I'm wrong in that theory...someone say something.)

I'm not a dirt router expert by any means, but those things I mentioned are things I look at with my turfy horses, in trying to figure out why they are not running like they should. And sometimes, it's just a slow stakes horse, which I will start putting into allowance races where they bring in some nice career earnings - with an occasional non graded stakes win.

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Lily Wilkins
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Lily Wilkins »

Thanks for the insight Jo :) that is a funny little coincidence too! This game can be so surprising sometimes, but I guess that's what makes it great!
Ash Tarasin wrote: ↑3 years ago I would probably let her stretch her legs. Starting at 11/4 miles to 11/2 miles, letting her go further if she showed she wanted that. Most of the horses in her immediate pedigree wants to cover ground, and more ground. It is possible 11/8 miles are just a warm-up for her.

Has she already peaked? Is that why you think she ought to have been precocious?

I would not shy away from the 11/4 mile race you have picked for her. It is possible that I am wrong and she doesn't want to be there either but her workout-times are brilliant, her pedigree even more brilliant (and she's got a pretty headshot), are you going to retire her at three without even knowing how she would have run over the derbydistance and longer? How would you know who to breed her to if you don't know what she wants? :)
She has been "at peak" since day one, and as you mentioned, has great workout times; that combination had me expecting better. I definitely hate to retire her before she has a chance to show me what she can do, and you have an excellent point... How on earth would I know how to breed her?! That hadn't even crossed my mind. I need to get her preferred distance sorted out!
I'll start her next out at 1 1/4 (or further, i'll have another look at the upcoming schedule) and go from there :)
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Danny Derby
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Danny Derby »

Don't run in a NW2 when you have a horse that can't break its maiden.

Stop shipping her all over the world. Probably isn't the problem with first class shipping, but it's not necessary.

Why are you running her in a Barrier Trial against G1 winning older male freaks prepping for the Saudi Cup/Dubai Cup?

Just keep running in MSW races, check the field 2 days before to make sure nothing better than her shows up and she'll break it. Don't get fancy or overthink this.
Last edited by Danny Derby 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Lily Wilkins
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Lily Wilkins »

Stormy Peak wrote: ↑3 years ago When she last galloped...what did it say about her maturing...late bloomer, progressive type, or at/near peak?
Does she like mud, or love dry? And how sound is she?

Also, have you Double Checked her equipment? I once raced an allowance horse with the SW as I had misread a gallop hint that was actually SR -- I think the F8 and FB can be mixed up too kind of easily.

The dam's sire... was a marathoner type... but the dam and the sire, seem to like that 1 1/4 distance. So maybe that is all she needs to, is a little more distance than 1 1/8th? She might even take after her dam's sire and need 1 1/2 mile races.

I think workout times can be a good indicator of potential, but sometimes not. I've had several stakes and even a freak or two, that if you looked at their workout times, they were not at all impressive. Also that barrier trial came just about 1 week after a race, and from what I understand the barrier trials are almost as challenging and tiring as a race. So she could be really tired for that Week 4 race...and again, the distance is one she's already tried. Maybe a bit of rest and that 1 1/4 mile race might be a better choice?

I also see she's been shipped to like Asia and such... 1st class keeps a horse from getting shipping tired...but it's also added time to shipping. And if I got this correct..... say a horse ships 14 hours to a track, then back again. That's 28 hours of time that it's not at a barn resting...where a horse gets it's best rest. And then say you rest the horse for one week, then enter again to a track that will be a 6 hour ship...again 1st class.
So now your horse has lost 34 hours (almost a day and a 1/2) of barn rest (plus some time while at the track waiting for the race which will probably be the next day). That could be a disadvantage if it's competitors were also racing every other week for a few races, but only shipping their horses 1st class for 4 or 5 hours round trip. (If I'm wrong in that theory...someone say something.)

I'm not a dirt router expert by any means, but those things I mentioned are things I look at with my turfy horses, in trying to figure out why they are not running like they should. And sometimes, it's just a slow stakes horse, which I will start putting into allowance races where they bring in some nice career earnings - with an occasional non graded stakes win.

Stormy
You bring up an interesting point about the shipping, Stormy. That's something I had not considered, and it could be affecting her. I should probably try giving her a bit more rest before her next start... My impatience can be a hindrance at times!
As for her info, she is at peak, loves mud, sound, and does have the correct equipment.
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Lily Wilkins
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Lily Wilkins »

Danny Derby wrote: ↑3 years ago Why are you running her in a Barrier Trial against G1 winning older male freaks prepping for the Saudi Cup/Dubai Cup?
:lol: Danny, it might say I have been playing since 2011, but let's be real here.. Half the time I have no clue what I'm doing, or why I'm doing it. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to this, you are exceptionally good at this game and I really look up to you.
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Leigh Ann Anderson
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Leigh Ann Anderson »

If she were mine I would give her a 3 week break- she's been racing every 2 1/2 weeks or less with big ships between each race, bet she's a bit tired. Then I would find a nice 3 YO maiden race that is 1 1/4 miles or better, but not 1 1/2 unless that's all that is available. Maybe something in the Middle East? Those often come up a bit easier, or sponsor a 3YO Cal bred filly race; something that would hopefully be easier and boost her confidence. I've found some horses thrive on racing every 2 weeks, some that need a little extra time to recover from shipping and some that really do best with a three week break between races.
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by The Steward »

So much GREAT advice here. Basically at this point she needs to break her maiden, she needs ground, and she needs a break. Take a breather, glare at her from afar, and then give her the perfect everything she wants in 3 weeks, and hopefully BAM! It will all come together.
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Laura Smith
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Laura Smith »

Lily Wilkins wrote: ↑3 years ago
Danny Derby wrote: ↑3 years ago Why are you running her in a Barrier Trial against G1 winning older male freaks prepping for the Saudi Cup/Dubai Cup?
:lol: Danny, it might say I have been playing since 2011, but let's be real here.. Half the time I have no clue what I'm doing, or why I'm doing it. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to this, you are exceptionally good at this game and I really look up to you.
But it doesn't matter if you lose the barrier trial, you still refill confidence, right? So sure, it sucks to run up the track, but maybe she'll be all set to get it done next time (I agree that a break is in order!)
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Lily Wilkins
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Lily Wilkins »

Yes, lots of wonderful advice <3 thanks everyone, you're the best!!
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Gwen Morse »

Good luck with this gal going forward, Lily. Also, if you think about it, please post an update when she improves for you.
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

I bet you get a nice win next race :)
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Re: Say What? A Frustrating Router?!

Post by Danny Derby »

Laura Smith wrote: ↑3 years ago
Lily Wilkins wrote: ↑3 years ago
Danny Derby wrote: ↑3 years ago Why are you running her in a Barrier Trial against G1 winning older male freaks prepping for the Saudi Cup/Dubai Cup?
:lol: Danny, it might say I have been playing since 2011, but let's be real here.. Half the time I have no clue what I'm doing, or why I'm doing it. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to this, you are exceptionally good at this game and I really look up to you.
But it doesn't matter if you lose the barrier trial, you still refill confidence, right? So sure, it sucks to run up the track, but maybe she'll be all set to get it done next time (I agree that a break is in order!)
I don't buy that she walked out of the barrier trial with full confidence, just didn't lose any. If I'm mistaken let me know. Either way, it's a missed opportunity to break her maiden while running in an impossible spot to be competitive in.
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