Steward-breds

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Should We Keep Steward-breds in Some Format?

NO GOODBYE FOREVER
18
17%
Yes, like 25 a year
10
9%
Your regular 250ish is great
76
70%
What's a Steward-bred
4
4%
 
Total votes: 108

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Tammy Stawicki
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Tammy Stawicki »

Rochelle Zahacy wrote: 3 years ago
Emily Mitchell wrote: 3 years ago The SIM is very different than it was when I started playing back in the 90s.

The only point I was trying to make is that for people that join any game, if it isn't fairly easy to have fun (aka win a race in this game), they usually quit. You guys that stick it out are amazing, and yes you deserve everything you've worked for I'm not disputing that. For the game as a whole, new players that join - if they have a chance to get one good horse and get to have fun - they'll be more likely to stay long term in which case they are more likely to buy game points and thus help keep this game afloat for us all. Game point purchases are essential to keep the game running. I very simply think Steward-breds should be more available to them or anyone that HAS been struggling for a long time, for the good of the game. That's all.

The hate I've received for my post, in-game messages and all, wow. I'll never express an opinion again... no worries guys. Goodbye from the forum. Happy New Year everyone.
I agree with you! I got the opportunity to buy a really nice horse my first year in game, and it gave me the HUNGER to work for more of that feeling! If I went years without being competitive my enthusiasm for the game would wane and I would spend less time/money/energy on here. Stewies are a *chance* at igniting that hunger again
Similarly, I was able to purchase a stewardbred my second year for only $150,000 at a special sale the steward did to introduce new mares she'd created. It definitely helped get me more engaged and interested sooner rather than later. While I don't think the steward needs to give a horse to every player I definitely think there is a big advantage in terms of player engagement in having it be at least possible for newer players to get their hands on one. It's sad that some players are sooooooo against giving new players an option for quick success that they'd take the time to privately message someone over it.
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The Harlequins
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by The Harlequins »

Speaking as a fairly new player,you older players will have to forgive my still fresh enthusiasm for the game.

Am skint every week, have no Steward breads, dont want any, and i am happy as Larry, love to trade so both partys are happy, my stock is coming along nicely in my view.

When the road i am on is built and the tarmac layed.I will build a new one :D :D
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Kelly Haggerty
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Kelly Haggerty »

I also got a Steward-bred mare in the Defoe auction, and it has helped with my engagement a great deal.
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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

Kelly L Haggerty wrote: 3 years ago I also got a Steward-bred mare in the Defoe auction, and it has helped with my engagement a great deal.
that was not a stewardbred in the same sense that we are discussing. The demand for those things is not quite the same.
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Gigi Gofaster
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Gigi Gofaster »

I'm hesitant to weigh in here as I can see it's a sensitive topic, but there are a few points that I think I can raise as a game veteran.

- I feel like too many new players focus only on the toughest divisions, like dirt routers. Yes it is VERY hard to be successful there. But start in mixers and you have a good chance of making real money with less expensive horses. Trotters made me in the game - they can race often, you don't have to figure out distances, and good horses aren't expensive. And in TBs, there are some divisions that are easier to figure out (dirt sprinters aren't that complicated) or have more unfilled stakes races to pick up money (like turf routers). I've been playing here for a bajillion years and only now do I feel like I can try to build a place in dirt routers.

- while I have enjoyed stew breds, they haven't made up the entirety of my big race horses - not even close. Most of my big winners were homebreds from cheap or claimed formidables that I bred with a lot of research. Breeding matters in this game, but you have to put the time in (and ask for help because it's out there). Even so, newer players can find well bred formidables for not much money, and most of the players I know (including me) will reduce or donate stud fees to help newer players get into breeding while minimizing the financial risk. I'm really excited to see how many new players are getting really good really fast with homebreeding too. I'd like to see a 'new breeder of the year' award because some of you guys have been amazing.

- I absolutely get that some 'quick wins' will help keep players in the game. But stew breds aren't the only way to do that. the Dare to Dream program was great; quality horses donated and given out to new players. Perhaps a game based DtD could be set up (although the new player sales page also 'cues' the better horses), or new players could be given a pseudo-stew bred, like a game-made allowance LB type to get some wins and have some fun from. They could also be formidable mares so there's something to start a breeding program with. I'm not in the 'I had to go uphill both ways so they should too' camp, but I also feel like the fun of this game is you have to figure it out, so when you get good it's all the more rewarding. I think there could be a balance found in how to start off new players with some good horses without restricting the current stewbred keeneland select sale type of money drain that the auctions provide. I also haven't heard much about the claiming race prizes, but there could be ways to make the lower level races more fun and more lucrative. I mean, there's a market for terrible trotters now with the Hopeless Stakes. Maybe there is room to build up claiming race awards or more dud stakes etc.

- The downside of stew limits for me really comes out when you have a stew bred that's a mid level colt. Nowadays, I'll happily buy them (and pay good money for them), geld them and have fun racing them because I can afford it now. I won't do that when there are limits, and the bottom then falls out of the less-than-brilliant stew bred market. Sure, that makes it easier for less bankrolled players to get them ( and maybe they shouldn't get them as some are really bad investments), but it also means if they get one in an auction or elsewhere, they will be hard to sell. There are plenty of new players (myself included back in the day) that spent good money on a stewdud. I was able to sell mine in a decent deal, thankfully, to a player like the today me that was willing to give him another chance. I might have been stuck with poor old Three Orcas forever if there had been stew bred limits. Stew breds can be a legit risk. They aren't all going to earn their way back. It's a little thing, but the last time we had limits things got very weird very fast so I'm hesitant to back that again.

- I have marginally landed on the get rid of stewbreds side, partly because I think it's too much drama, and partly because I think taking them out of the game would improve home breeding. Now, if divisions start to flounder or get inbred, I like the steward standing stallions which is a relatively drama-free way of broadening the gene pool. But I'm sure there will be those who disagree. Frankly though, I feel like its up the the Steward and I can see benefits in keeping them (even if she had a smaller operation for her own sanity), but I think there would be some benefits to the game too if they went away/phased out. I'd also like to see the create a horse go away, but I honestly don't know how much revenue it brings to the game so I won't go where my expertise shouldn't take me.

So that's my two pence, and I'm not precious about it so I'm interested to hear what other people think. If I offend anyone in what I've said, it certainly isn't my intention so I'll apologize in advance.
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The Steward
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by The Steward »

So what would everyone's recommendation be about me leasing mares from other players. They don't get to race the foal, or they do? If I'm willing to pay $5 million for a Steward's Cup winner who has produced 2 freaks, but not willing to pay more than $1 million for a generic Grade 1 winner, how do I stop the "that's not fair" ness? If we rely on people leasing me mares for free, that would be what, 2 people a year? How will I replenish my own stock?
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Dave Trainer
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Dave Trainer »

One suggestion would be to have a small separate lease auction of some foal/yearling fillies so players would race them then they would return to you after they have raced 2 or 3 years so you could breed them. I know that doesn't answer your question bout how to replenish your stock in the near future but it would help going forward.

As for the "that's not fair" of what you pay that is between you and the owner and depends on how much you want the mare and what they are willing to sell for. That is just like any other deal between 2 players (except you can afford any amount and most of us can't lol) Not everything is "fair" and we as players will always disagree about values of horses.

Imo they shouldn't get to lease the foal though, that should be factored into the price you pay. As I said above do a lease auction for those. If you pay someone 5m to lease a mare they could always bid in the auction to lease the foal to race :)
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Lily Wilkins
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Lily Wilkins »

I've personally always thought that it's the highest honor to have The Steward like your mare enough to want to lease her. Shoot, I would be so excited if you came to me wanting to lease something in my barn, that I would likely let you do it for free :lol:
Really, as long as I would get to race/retain a foal from the filly you produce, I'm all good with whatever.
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Durzo Blint
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Durzo Blint »

The Steward wrote: 3 years ago So what would everyone's recommendation be about me leasing mares from other players. They don't get to race the foal, or they do? If I'm willing to pay $5 million for a Steward's Cup winner who has produced 2 freaks, but not willing to pay more than $1 million for a generic Grade 1 winner, how do I stop the "that's not fair" ness? If we rely on people leasing me mares for free, that would be what, 2 people a year? How will I replenish my own stock?
My view (I still consider myself new here) is, if this is truly a concern, why not have standard type pricing? I think the "that's not fair" argument is probably less around the amount of $ for a lease and more when a horse is sold/given outside an auction without everyone either having a chance or being aware of how certain arrangements came to be (and if those arrangements available for everyone). I could be wrong here and maybe people are really upset about the disparity in sim cash for leases.

If so, you could have a post that outlines the standard price for each lease. I'm not sure if the only categories that drive price is earnings and foal gallops, but you could say for a mare that has won at least 2 G1's and produced at least 2 freaks, price is $5M (only 1 G1 and at least 2 freaks is $4.5m, etc.). I'm sure the "menu" could be long, but it's more a take it or leave it price that is available to anyone that has a mare that meets the set requirements.
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Ryan Whitehead
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Ryan Whitehead »

Dave Trainer wrote: 3 years ago One suggestion would be to have a small separate lease auction of some foal/yearling fillies so players would race them then they would return to you after they have raced 2 or 3 years so you could breed them. I know that doesn't answer your question bout how to replenish your stock in the near future but it would help going forward.

As for the "that's not fair" of what you pay that is between you and the owner and depends on how much you want the mare and what they are willing to sell for. That is just like any other deal between 2 players (except you can afford any amount and most of us can't lol) Not everything is "fair" and we as players will always disagree about values of horses.

Imo they shouldn't get to lease the foal though, that should be factored into the price you pay. As I said above do a lease auction for those. If you pay someone 5m to lease a mare they could always bid in the auction to lease the foal to race :)
Sorry but this idea is Horrendous. If I lease a mare to the Steward then I 100 percent should get to race the foal. The foal can count against a yearly Steward-bred quota that is fine but to have the foal auctioned so someone else can race them is absurd. Honestly the likelihood of another owner campaigning a horse better than the person leasing the dam is probably slim to none. Plus the owner that leases their dam is doing the Sim community a favor because they are allowing everyone else a chance at purchasing their bloodlines at a later time. Your idea also removes another critical aspect of leasing which is the owner gets to breed the 1st foal before they return the filly to the Steward.

Here is what I would suggest:

1. Standard lease price between 2-5M.

2. Dam owner races the filly through her 4 yo season.(1 yr longer than current leases but allows the Steward to have mares with higher earnings and owners to lease cheaper. Plus the owner gets one more season of the thrill of racing which is what the game is really about)

3. Owner breeds 1st foal and returns to Steward.

Anything less than those minimums won't result in the Steward getting many of the higher quality mare leases. Even with these conditions leases may be difficult. Leases have to be a win/win for all parties involved
Last edited by Ryan Whitehead 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Cleo Patra
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Cleo Patra »

I don’t understand what the drama with leases is?

If it’s that leasing means you get an extra stewbred to race, that’s easily solved by having them all be steward-breds and count towards the limit. So no having the player breed and sell and then lease back. But the player gets first foal to compensate for the fact that they lose one of their limit spots for a horse they don’t own outright and get 8+ foals from.

I absolutely disagree with any price caps. A horse like Fiery Eyes is going to lease for 5-10 million+ on the open market every day of the week and a single foal from one of her fillies in a TBS auction is going to sell for that. The end result is a significant net removal of money from the game, even with the big lease price. Plus it gives people a chance to buy into bloodlines like that where they’d probably never have a hope on the private market.
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Rochelle Bos »

Cleo Patra wrote: 3 years ago I don’t understand what the drama with leases is?

If it’s that leasing means you get an extra stewbred to race, that’s easily solved by having them all be steward-breds and count towards the limit. So no having the player breed and sell and then lease back. But the player gets first foal to compensate for the fact that they lose one of their limit spots for a horse they don’t own outright and get 8+ foals from.

I absolutely disagree with any price caps. A horse like Fiery Eyes is going to lease for 5-10 million+ on the open market every day of the week and a single foal from one of her fillies in a TBS auction is going to sell for that. The end result is a significant net removal of money from the game, even with the big lease price. Plus it gives people a chance to buy into bloodlines like that where they’d probably never have a hope on the private market.
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Jack Meyer »

The Steward wrote: 3 years ago So what would everyone's recommendation be about me leasing mares from other players. They don't get to race the foal, or they do? If I'm willing to pay $5 million for a Steward's Cup winner who has produced 2 freaks, but not willing to pay more than $1 million for a generic Grade 1 winner, how do I stop the "that's not fair" ness? If we rely on people leasing me mares for free, that would be what, 2 people a year? How will I replenish my own stock?
I have never understood why you wanting to lease a mare or buy a mare was a problem, it is the way you got your top bloodlines and drained money out of the SIM....I have always considered it an honor when you want a mare of mine whether leased or bought...I think you should be able to lease a mare for whatever you and the seller wants to agree or and I think you should be able to buy a mare for the amount agree on too with no limits...I think that if it agreed that the seller get to race the baby and get a foal then that's fine, whatever is agreed upon

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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

If the steward MUST breed horses, then there is no reason why she can't still lease mare from players, however there should be restrictions.

For instance, previously the Steward might lease out 2-3 mares all within the same season from the same player.
I think there should be a maximum of one mare lease per player per season.

I don't see anything wrong with the amount of money agreed upon for the lease as that is a transaction between the steward and player, not the steward and the rest of the sim community, however there should be some sort of publicly established criteria set based on what the mare accomplished on the track and their pedigree.

In terms of racing the resulting foals, that has always been part of the previous agreement and yes you as the mare owner want to make sure the foals from that mare are successful so I think the mare owner should 100% be able to race the resulting foal.

In regards to the # of stewardbreds, there for sure need to be a CAP per season bred per division. It is unfair to the player bred horses when the steward decides to breed 150 DR mares and 5 DS mares same season. (yes that is an exaggeration). The DR owners don't have a great chance at success with their homebreds with 150 DR Steward bred foals running that season. (Yes don't kid yourself, stewardbreds are magical and mot will beat your homebreds). What about 150-200 max stew breds a season and then they are also restricted as to the number she can breed per division.


In regards to auction format, I know players LOVE the "1 Large Auction" format since the horses go much cheaper, but the purpose of the so called stewardbred is to remove money from the game. Having only 1 large auction with 1 per player will never accomplish the money grab that 3-4 smaller auctions will.

Lastly restrictions will have to be in place for the amount owned by each player per age group. 2 Max per season is plenty. Again I say 2 per player instead of 1 as yes this is a way to pull money out of the game and not allowing those rich players to spend their money is defeating the purpose. If you can't get one every season then you need to safe your money and try the next season.

I have fastened my seatbelt as I am sure there are going to be several disagreeing opinions, but since this will effect the future of the game I love, i had to respond.
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Darcy McBride
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Re: Steward-breds

Post by Darcy McBride »

I have never personally had an issue with The Steward leasing mares from players. I believe the lease price is between The Steward and the player.
I have leased mares a time or two to The Steward myself. And it was not for the money; it was for the chance to race a filly and get to breed her first foal. To have this bloodline in my barn.

I would hate to see the fillies lease auctioned off; what would be the point of leasing your mare if you don't get to race/breed the filly once? I would end up not leasing the mare, and breeding her myself. It doesn't bother me to have this filly count as part of my SB Quota.

I don't think a cap or pricing menu is feasible. DR and TR mares usually get a higher lease price, as that is where the most action/demand is. The milers and sprinters can be less, depending on the bloodlines behind them. TBS horses can sell for higher than the mare lease money; depending on the bloodlines.

I do like the idea of being able to run the filly through her 4th year, then have the right to breed her first foal before she goes to join The Steward's broodmare band.

And I still like the idea that The Steward can leave a name in the notes; just not have named foals/yearlings/2 yr olds showing in the auction.

Just some of my thoughts.
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