Post Position - Does It Matter?

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Ryan Whitehead
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Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Ryan Whitehead »

Since I joined the Sim nearly 5 real life years ago I have always heard that drawing the 1 PP was a disadvantage. I suppose I just accepted this truth without examining my own results. However, I've recently drawn the 1 PP in 2 huge races and amazingly won both. So I went through the race history and noticed one other 1 PP which just so happened to be another major win. Improvisational has 3 career starts from the 1 PP: Steward's Cup Bunbury, Gran Premio Carlos Pellegrini, and Chicago Million.

Maybe my horse is an oddball but if so give me the 1 PP in every race.

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Brandon Schultz
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Brandon Schultz »

My understanding is that it matters but probably matters less than most people think. I believe (but could definitely be corrected on this) that it's a pretty minor penalty. In the whole scheme of things, it probably will only change the results of what would be an otherwise close race. It's definitely not the death sentence many think it is.
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Darcy McBride
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Darcy McBride »

Thermodynamic loved the #1 PP. Ask Ali. :)

I think it can make a difference in some races, especially races that are full. But I've also won from PP1 and PP12. I believe a lot depends on the horse as well.
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Stormy Peak
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Stormy Peak »

I thought I read somewhere, regarding the far inside and outside post positions...that the Steward said it was more of a disadvantage in large fields...but even then, not that big of a disadvantage. I'm not sure what is considered a large field though... more than half? like 8 horses...or is it more like 10 horses or more in a field of 14. ???

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Lily Wilkins
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Lily Wilkins »

I think in a full/large field it can have a small factor. I had one run the other night in gate 11 of 11 entrants, and her running lines tell the story of a horse that was stuck wide throughout the entire race. Luckily she still won, but I suspect her win is partly thanks to there being no real challengers in the race. I think she might have been defeated had there been a horse in the race of comparable ability.
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Laura Smith
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Laura Smith »

Brandon Schultz wrote: 3 years ago My understanding is that it matters but probably matters less than most people think. I believe (but could definitely be corrected on this) that it's a pretty minor penalty. In the whole scheme of things, it probably will only change the results of what would be an otherwise close race. It's definitely not the death sentence many think it is.
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Rochelle Bos
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Rochelle Bos »

As someone who seems to pull the “wrong” pp’s in 90% of my big race attempts I like to jokingly blame the PPs.

The inside two post positions (2 not so much as the 1) are affected, and the outside two are also (the furthest more so than the 2nd furthest). As a new player I thought that meant if the field was 5 horses all the pps except 3 would have a ding LOL but for most fields the max is 12 horses, so 11 and 12 will get the ding. But some races it will be pps 13/14 or 19/20, depending on their allowed field size.

I’ve also read that as long as the two horses who are in the effected pps don’t run in the same style it’s less noticeable.

I will forever blame the PP draw for this one 😉
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Dave Trainer
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Dave Trainer »

If your horse is a front runner and draws PP1 its an advantage if it gets the lead just like rl. If its a closer its a disadvantage as it will have to either get lucky and find a gap or be pulled to the outside to challenge.
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Cleo Patra
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Cleo Patra »

I’m really confused by PPs in game because they work so differently to the way they do when I’m riding in races in real life.

That said, I think they only show as a point of difference in full stacked fields like SC. If you’re in a 5 horse field with a superior animal then you could probably run an extra furlong and still win.
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Arthur Cutler
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Arthur Cutler »

Dave Trainer wrote: 3 years ago If your horse is a front runner and draws PP1 its an advantage if it gets the lead just like rl. If its a closer its a disadvantage as it will have to either get lucky and find a gap or be pulled to the outside to challenge.
Dave is spot on with this.....If your horse has speed the one post actually will help your horse but if your horse is slow out of the gait the one post is a hindrance especially in a large field
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Durzo Blint
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Durzo Blint »

Cleo Patra wrote: 3 years ago I’m really confused by PPs in game because they work so differently to the way they do when I’m riding in races in real life.

That said, I think they only show as a point of difference in full stacked fields like SC. If you’re in a 5 horse field with a superior animal then you could probably run an extra furlong and still win.
How does it work in races in real life Cleo? I'm just genuinely curious as I know nothing about real life racing and maybe less about sim racing!
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Cleo Patra
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Cleo Patra »

Durzo Blint wrote: 3 years ago
Cleo Patra wrote: 3 years ago I’m really confused by PPs in game because they work so differently to the way they do when I’m riding in races in real life.

That said, I think they only show as a point of difference in full stacked fields like SC. If you’re in a 5 horse field with a superior animal then you could probably run an extra furlong and still win.
How does it work in races in real life Cleo? I'm just genuinely curious as I know nothing about real life racing and maybe less about sim racing!
I’m in Australia so we race a bit different to Europe and a lot different to America. Here I would say 90% of the time, the closer to the rail you are the better. Exceptions to the rule:
Wet tracks is usually a death sentence for your chance of winning if you get put on the rail (by gate or by circumstance)
Track profile comes into play from a good gate on a backmarker. If you’ve got a corner where the field typically flares out you can ride for luck, but there are velodrome tracks like Mackay where 3 back on the fence is the end of your chances.
Sand/dirt tracks are pretty much the same as wet tracks
And finally if you have a horse shy ride they will often race better sitting outside the field even though they have to run further

It also depends on the circumference and shape of the track too. A horse who sits 3 wide may travel the equivalent of 12 lengths further than the horse on the rail which means he has to run TWO seconds faster to beat the horse inside (extreme case but 1 second usually equals about 6 lengths)
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Andrew James
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Andrew James »

From the Help article fwiw

"Post positions are randomly generated when entries close, and can be viewed between the time races close and when the race is run. Designation 1 is closest to the "rail." Horses in the 1 and 2 posts, as well as the wide outside posts, will have a tougher time getting into the race unless the horses are full of speed.

All races are affected by post position (including Steeplechase races, because a wide horse will still be wide unless angled in), but in shorter races (2 furlong sprints, etc) the rail spot is affected more than the outside, because breaking clean from the rail becomes far more important."

If I get time this week I will circle back on this and pull the data from my results to see if we can glean a percentage affect type stat.
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Durzo Blint
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Re: Post Position - Does It Matter?

Post by Durzo Blint »

Thanks Cleo! Very interesting and pretty awesome to hear a first hand view of this!
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