Breeding Age Length

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Rochelle Bos
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Breeding Age Length

Post by Rochelle Bos »

So this is mostly Stormy’s idea. ;) but I thought it was a really good talking point!

What if all horses were given 8-10 years of breeding based off when they retire?

So say you have a freak late bloomer 7yo and you continue to race him until he’s actually done racing at say 9yo, you haven’t “wasted” his entire stud career!

But more importantly (to me), when you have a mare that loves to run, you don’t feel the pressure to retire her because you ran her at 6yo and she might only be able to give you 6 foals!

Let the horses run until they are done!
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Nini Panini
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Nini Panini »

While the idealistic side of me likes this, I do think it’s more interesting/realistic to have some critical decision making when it comes to retiring horses. I firmly stand by the system we have now. If you want to run longer, you’ll need to give up foals. Risk versus reward should be part of any game. Just my two cents.
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Danny Derby
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Danny Derby »

Nini Hunter wrote: 3 years ago While the idealistic side of me likes this, I do think it’s more interesting/realistic to have some critical decision making when it comes to retiring horses. I firmly stand by the system we have now. If you want to run longer, you’ll need to give up foals. Risk versus reward should be part of any game. Just my two cents.
100% with Nini on this.
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Stormy Peak
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Stormy Peak »

Nini Hunter wrote: 3 years ago While the idealistic side of me likes this, I do think it’s more interesting/realistic to have some critical decision making when it comes to retiring horses. I firmly stand by the system we have now. If you want to run longer, you’ll need to give up foals. Risk versus reward should be part of any game. Just my two cents.
I know in real life, stallions retire quite young... 3 to 5 years old... however, stallions are still servicing mares into their 20's in some cases. Alydar, before he was killed, was 15 years old and on the cusp of being retired as a stallion in a few more years from what I read... which would have made him 17 years old. Seattle Slew who retired as a 4 year old was still breeding mares when he was 27. I know that might be the extreme, but I think in real life, stallions often go past 14 years of age and often retire closer to 20 than to 14.

I guess it's not a big deal in the Sim, as it seems only a few horses can maintain their form past age 6. But it would still be neat if those that could, still had a chance at racing and still retire to stud with some time to develop as a stud before being hit with the retirement hammer. : )

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Dylan Christensen
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Dylan Christensen »

Yeah it takes away the strategy from the game. No reason for anyone not to run until a horse is 10 if they’re guaranteed plenty of breeding time.
yeah
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Stormy Peak
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Stormy Peak »

Dylan Christensen wrote: 3 years ago Yeah it takes away the strategy from the game. No reason for anyone not to run until a horse is 10 if they’re guaranteed plenty of breeding time.
I don't think an extra 2 years is 'plenty' - just a bit more fair - if applied as just one extension for horses running from age 7 years to age 10 years.

I'm not saying that a horse should get an extra year for every year they stay on the track after age 6...just the one extension to be allowed 2 more years in the shed... this would allow those late bloomers who's careers early on, couldn't match those of stallions that came out of the gate hot early on. The late bloomers, to me, are kind of getting the short end of the stick in the stud barn, in my opinion...especially if their best efforts come later in their career.

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Danny Derby
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Danny Derby »

Stormy Peak wrote: 3 years ago
I know in real life, stallions retire quite young... 3 to 5 years old... however, stallions are still servicing mares into their 20's in some cases.
Stallions are also dropping dead half way through their first season at stud and never make it to 5. I think being guaranteed a stud career until at least 14 is a pretty big improvement over real life.
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Dylan Christensen
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Dylan Christensen »

Stormy Peak wrote: 3 years ago
Dylan Christensen wrote: 3 years ago Yeah it takes away the strategy from the game. No reason for anyone not to run until a horse is 10 if they’re guaranteed plenty of breeding time.
I don't think an extra 2 years is 'plenty' - just a bit more fair - if applied as just one extension for horses running from age 7 years to age 10 years.

I'm not saying that a horse should get an extra year for every year they stay on the track after age 6...just the one extension to be allowed 2 more years in the shed... this would allow those late bloomers who's careers early on, couldn't match those of stallions that came out of the gate hot early on. The late bloomers, to me, are kind of getting the short end of the stick in the stud barn, in my opinion...especially if their best efforts come later in their career.

Stormy
How is it fair to the horse that peaked early and retired at 4 to get the same amount of breeding time as the late bloomer who got to run until 6?
yeah
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Stormy Peak
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Stormy Peak »

Dylan Christensen wrote: 3 years ago
Stormy Peak wrote: 3 years ago
Dylan Christensen wrote: 3 years ago Yeah it takes away the strategy from the game. No reason for anyone not to run until a horse is 10 if they’re guaranteed plenty of breeding time.
I don't think an extra 2 years is 'plenty' - just a bit more fair - if applied as just one extension for horses running from age 7 years to age 10 years.

I'm not saying that a horse should get an extra year for every year they stay on the track after age 6...just the one extension to be allowed 2 more years in the shed... this would allow those late bloomers who's careers early on, couldn't match those of stallions that came out of the gate hot early on. The late bloomers, to me, are kind of getting the short end of the stick in the stud barn, in my opinion...especially if their best efforts come later in their career.

Stormy
How is it fair to the horse that peaked early and retired at 4 to get the same amount of breeding time as the late bloomer who got to run until 6?
There's 2 years of breeding difference there. (on the earlier side of retiring a horse)

Adding two years for 7 on up, just equalizes things by given them 2 years differences at the other end of the spectrum...if they end up retiring between 7 to 9.

I doubt there is any 'fair' way of doing it, but I do think it's a bit of an equalizer to allow those horses' who have the ability to improve much later in their career to get approx, the same amount of years in the breeding shed as those who retired at age 5.

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Lily Wilkins
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Lily Wilkins »

Danny Derby wrote: 3 years ago
Stormy Peak wrote: 3 years ago
I know in real life, stallions retire quite young... 3 to 5 years old... however, stallions are still servicing mares into their 20's in some cases.
Stallions are also dropping dead half way through their first season at stud and never make it to 5. I think being guaranteed a stud career until at least 14 is a pretty big improvement over real life.
This. We have the luxury in the SIM of guaranteed time. Could you imagine if studs could have unfortunate twists of fate Arrogate? Or, your mares could have Zenyatta's breeding luck? Working within the SIM's age parameters can be annoying, but at least we know that our horse's breeding productivity to a certain age is guaranteed if they are insured.
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Stormy Peak
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Stormy Peak »

They don't drop dead during their racing careers here either...a la Swale.

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Shannon Hunt
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Shannon Hunt »

I wonder what effect this would have on race fields.

If the supercolts don't retire because they know they can squeeze another million or four out of their racing career, without any impact on length of breeding career (and thus even more potential income without any trade-off), what happens with the younger generations? Do promising younger colts get bumped out of big races because they're brimming with older horses with tons of points from extended careers who have no incentive to retire until they actually drop in gallop (which my stud, while not a supercolt, still had not done at age nine)?

Maybe it's a dramatic hypothesis and wouldn't pan out that way. I don't have any supercolts in competitive divisions so it wouldn't affect me in any way. But it's something I would think about if it did.
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Dave Trainer
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Dave Trainer »

Rochelle Zahacy wrote: 3 years ago So this is mostly Stormy’s idea. ;) but I thought it was a really good talking point!

What if all horses were given 8-10 years of breeding based off when they retire?

So say you have a freak late bloomer 7yo and you continue to race him until he’s actually done racing at say 9yo, you haven’t “wasted” his entire stud career!

But more importantly (to me), when you have a mare that loves to run, you don’t feel the pressure to retire her because you ran her at 6yo and she might only be able to give you 6 foals!

Let the horses run until they are done!
Studs do have 8 - 10 years now.

Retire at 4 they have 10, retire at 6 they have 8

This suggestion is along the lines of "I want to have my cake and eat it". I don't want to have to make a strategic decision.

Shannon's point about fields in big races is very valid. What chance would a precocious 3yo have of getting in them if late bloomers were running in them at 7 or 8 with many more points.
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Re: Breeding Age Length

Post by Gwen Morse »

Nini Hunter wrote: 3 years ago While the idealistic side of me likes this, I do think it’s more interesting/realistic to have some critical decision making when it comes to retiring horses. I firmly stand by the system we have now. If you want to run longer, you’ll need to give up foals. Risk versus reward should be part of any game. Just my two cents.
Not directed at you, just piggybacking onto your comment.

I would like to see risk vs. reward being consistent. First Class Shipping takes money out of the game but is an awful change for people who prefer to feel like they're competing based somewhat on trainer skill. When I say trainer skill I mean "how well a trainer places a horse" in a particular region/circuit of races, obviously the dice on race day are based on the horses and not trainers.

There's a lot of people making comments about how they want to be recognized for their skill, while also doing things like paying to ship their top class horses to soft stakes fields halfway across the planet for one or two easy wins a season, or paying 3 million dollars (or whatever the fee is) to save their prize broodmares. These are smart decisions (in the sense that they'll reward you) but they're not skilled or risky decisions.

They're also not really accessible to less successful players. They either can't afford it at all (like the broodmare fee) or they're paying money they should be putting into other things to counter _other players_ advantages and try to set the fields back to almost level (like for FCS).

I like this prospective change as long as it applies to all horses because everyone benefits, not just the wealthy players. Wealthier players will have more good horses, but "anyone" can luck into a goodish breeding prospect that's also running well.
Shannon Hunt wrote: 3 years ago I wonder what effect this would have on race fields.

If the supercolts don't retire because they know they can squeeze another million or four out of their racing career, without any impact on length of breeding career (and thus even more potential income without any trade-off), what happens with the younger generations? Do promising younger colts get bumped out of big races because they're brimming with older horses with tons of points from extended careers who have no incentive to retire until they actually drop in gallop?
This is an interesting point from the other side. Do precocious 3 y/os have a fair chance against a lot of 5 y/o superhorses that haven't retired yet? I honestly don't know.
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