new players

[Dylan Christensen]

Nothing wrong with a newb being dominant if they do it on their own. However, i would have to agree that if they're only dominating because of a bunch of donations that does kind of defeat the purpose of newbie perks.

[Mr. Lord Rich]

I have lots of nicely priced options on the sales page for Trial park races
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=51347
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=51344

[Brandon Schultz]

What I am saying is that in general it isn't good for the game for one player to be so dominant at TP that the rest of the new player cohort goes bankrupt or requires a Chrysler-esque bailout.

When new players go bankrupt it is not because there is one good player at trial park winning races. Even if an outstanding new player miraculously won EVERY SINGLE RACE (which doesn't happen, although occasionally there is one that wins a lot, Trent won around 30%) there's still tons of OTB money to be made. Not to mention all of the other ways new players can earn money (e.g. writing articles, mixer divisions where races don't typically fill, pinhooking new player auction TBS horses, ect.). There are also so many ways that new players get financial relief (e.g lower fees and day rates). This game is already set up to help newbies succeed, and many do.

From my limited experience in the sim (just 6 sim seasons), new players more often than not go broke because they don't have the patience to let their stable develop and they don't have good money management skills. Very occasionally a new player goes broke because they don't get the help they need or they are misled by sneaky veterans - but this is honestly very rare. Veterans are typically willing to help new players out with advice, horses, financial relief if they need it...

There are always going to be players that are better than other players. It happens at trial park and it happens outside of trial park. Yes, the best players at trial park are often the ones that get the most help from veterans, but that doesn't mean that someone won't succeed because they get less help than someone else. And that help is often offered to everyone that asks, the players that get more help just ask more. The goal shouldn't be to give everyone participation awards or nerf the players that are good - in my opinion that would hurt new players more than it would help them.

[Kelly Haggerty]

What I am saying is that in general it isn't good for the game for one player to be so dominant at TP that the rest of the new player cohort goes bankrupt or requires a Chrysler-esque bailout.

When new players go bankrupt it is not because there is one good player at trial park winning races. Even if an outstanding new player miraculously won EVERY SINGLE RACE (which doesn't happen, although occasionally there is one that wins a lot, Trent won around 30%) there's still tons of OTB money to be made. Not to mention all of the other ways new players can earn money (e.g. writing articles, mixer divisions where races don't typically fill, pinhooking new player auction TBS horses, ect.). There are also so many ways that new players get financial relief (e.g lower fees and day rates). This game is already set up to help newbies succeed, and many do.

From my limited experience in the sim (just 6 sim seasons), new players more often than not go broke because they don't have the patience to let their stable develop and they don't have good money management skills. Very occasionally a new player goes broke because they don't get the help they need or they are misled by sneaky veterans - but this is honestly very rare. Veterans are typically willing to help new players out with advice, horses, financial relief if they need it...

There are always going to be players that are better than other players. It happens at trial park and it happens outside of trial park. Yes, the best players at trial park are often the ones that get the most help from veterans, but that doesn't mean that someone won't succeed because they get less help than someone else. And that help is often offered to everyone that asks, the players that get more help just ask more. The goal shouldn't be to give everyone participation awards or nerf the players that are good - in my opinion that would hurt new players more than it would help them.

There isn't "tons" of OTB money to be made, minus expenses, if there are 3-4 allowance or stakes quality horses in every race. I've sent you a PM, and perhaps you and I can find a more constructive way of communicating in future. No one is looking for participation awards, and this is not about politics or which talk show host one listens to. Nor is it about whether vets are willing to help. It is about there being some awareness of balance at Trial Park, which I still think is a valid point. Once out of TP the gloves are certainly off, as it should be, but TP exists for a reason and overloading one player negates the purpose imo.

[Andrew Chillin]

I was Danny derby in my first account

[Rochelle Bos]

I have a bit of an unpopular opinion on this.

This will be my 9th game year and I have to admit I don’t stalk trial park or track new players, I assume that is the same for a lot of other players. When I see newbies active on the forum, or when I am the chat room, those are the people that stand out to me. From what I see, the newbies on the forum/in chat seem to be actively trying to learn the game, and those are the ones who end up helped.

We can’t help people who we don’t realize exist, which is harsh, but we all have lives outside the sim

The one thing I would caution is the horseflesh given. Giving new players horses with gallops lower than allowance are going to put in a ton of time in for very little return. Even when I was running at TP most of the horses entered were allowance and stakes, and I assume it’s the same (or better...worse?) now. And new players will be all YAY! Free horses, without knowing better.

[Keith Maidlow]

I’ve been in the SIM since SIM year 19. The game was more simple then but it still took a long time to make enough money to play with the top players. Today I don’t think I would make it past trial park even knowing what I do about the game. Most players don’t let too many good ones get away and “diamonds in the rough” don’t happen too often. I applaud all those who hang in there for the long haul and get to enjoy this terrific game.

[Jack Ryder]

Such a pretty yearling.
https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1348811&

[Dylan Christensen]

I have a bit of an unpopular opinion on this.

This will be my 9th game year and I have to admit I don’t stalk trial park or track new players, I assume that is the same for a lot of other players. When I see newbies active on the forum, or when I am the chat room, those are the people that stand out to me. From what I see, the newbies on the forum/in chat seem to be actively trying to learn the game, and those are the ones who end up helped.

We can’t help people who we don’t realize exist, which is harsh, but we all have lives outside the sim

The one thing I would caution is the horseflesh given. Giving new players horses with gallops lower than allowance are going to put in a ton of time in for very little return. Even when I was running at TP most of the horses entered were allowance and stakes, and I assume it’s the same (or better...worse?) now. And new players will be all YAY! Free horses, without knowing better.

Very well stated

[Dylan Christensen]

Such a pretty yearling.
https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1348811&

ooh la la

[Dylan Christensen]

Just a random thought, why not allow veterans to post free leases onto the New Player sales page? Not every newb is socially active but any good newb is pretty active on the sales page so that could help spread horses to the best of the best.

[Calia Mendez]

I don't have clear feelings on this- on one hand, I did join when one person was dominating all of Trial Park, and yeah, that wasn't fun. But I feel like I've done fine for the most part, anyways. I didn't get much help until around the end of last year, but I decided to focus on lower-level mixers, and that turned out just fine. I think I agree with Kelly's fundamental point that the more talented horses should be spread out a little more, but newer players do have options other than Trial Park that they should be aware of. I wrote an article about some of those options a while back.

That being said, looking just at someone's win percentage isn't a great way to gauge exactly how much they're dominating Trial Park, especially with multiple horses being entered in one race. I decided to look back and get the hard numbers on how many Trial Park races were being won by a single person the last time there was a really dominant new player. I feel like these numbers will be helpful for this discussion.

I did this by pulling up the races from three different weeks: Y56 Week 14, Y57 Week 5, and Y57 Week 9. These were picked to show the spread over a period of time, but were pretty much arbitrary; I didn't look at any other weeks at all.

Y56 Week 14, there were 36 races total, but I've excluded three races because they only had two horses and one because it was unaccounted for in my numbers and I didn't feel like doing the work to figure it out. That means 32 races went into these calculations, and 71.8% of those races were won by a single person, with a 96.9% OTB percentage.

The actual placings he got were:
16 (50%) were both 1st and 2nd
6 (18.8%) were both 1st and 3rd
1 (3.1%) was 1st only

4 (12.5%) were 2nd and 3rd
2 (6.25%) were 2nd only
2 (6.25%) were 3rd only
1 (3.1%) was off the board. I did not note whether it was in the money.

Y57 Week 5, there were 37 total races. 77.7% were won by one person, with a 97.2% OTB percentage. The placings were:
20 (55.6%) were 1st and 2nd
4 (11.1%) were 1st and 3rd
4 (11.1%) were 1st only

6 (16.7%) were 2nd and 3rd
0 were 2nd only
1 (2.8%) was 3rd only
1 (2.8%) was off the board.

Y57 Week 9, there were 37 total races. 86.5% were won by one person, with a 100% OTB percentage. The placings were:
19 (51.6%) were 1st and 2nd
6 (16.2%) were 1st and 3rd
7 (18.9%) were 1st only

5 (13.5%) were 2nd and 3rd
0 were 2nd only, and 0 were 3rd only.

[Kelly Haggerty]

Such a pretty yearling.
https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1348811&

Very!

[Kelly Haggerty]

I have a bit of an unpopular opinion on this.

This will be my 9th game year and I have to admit I don’t stalk trial park or track new players, I assume that is the same for a lot of other players. When I see newbies active on the forum, or when I am the chat room, those are the people that stand out to me. From what I see, the newbies on the forum/in chat seem to be actively trying to learn the game, and those are the ones who end up helped.

We can’t help people who we don’t realize exist, which is harsh, but we all have lives outside the sim

The one thing I would caution is the horseflesh given. Giving new players horses with gallops lower than allowance are going to put in a ton of time in for very little return. Even when I was running at TP most of the horses entered were allowance and stakes, and I assume it’s the same (or better...worse?) now. And new players will be all YAY! Free horses, without knowing better.

Now we are getting into a discussion similar to the "what makes a top player" talk that was on the forum a week or so ago. If a newbie wants to run in AK then the lower-end horses can be useful earners, even though as you say the return is low. Or, if they want to do mixers or maybe even STB those are other options. I would never try for most wins or most $, I just don't want that many horses! But some do and go the route of bulding a really big barn. I guess we start to get glimpses of what each player thinks they may want while they try to navigate TP. Ultimately I was really happy with where I was when I graduated and I still feel that way, but my target is building a breeding program and working on raising my OTB, so that is very different than winning Simmys or dominating much of anything. It will take probably 10 seasons or more to reach the goal I have in mind, which is absolutely fine.

As far as getting visibility within the community 1) I am not sure that's always a good thing and 2) I feel like whether it's good or not, it's probably one of the roles of a good mentor, helping their mentee make the best connections for their goals.

[Stormy Peak]

Trial Park isn't the only place to race if one is a new player. Find spots that fit your horses, rather than trying to put that square peg into the oval of Trial Park.

Every week there are regular barely filled races, and claimer races where I'm sure a lot of horses racing at Trial Park could make some money. Because I don't put my horses in claiming races, I race claimer types all the time in non-claiming races and many of them still earn me money. But for those who don't mind putting a horse into claimers...there is that, plus a lot of maiden and nw-type races out there.

If someone gives a player a decent allowance horse...why just keep butting your heads against that one great trial park trainer? Go out and find a maiden, or non-winner type race and put that allowance type in that, or even an allowance race if it can no longer run in a NW5 due to having that many wins.

Trial Park doesn't have to be the end all for new players, especially if you are getting some allowance or even stakes types from older players. Take that stakes type and run it in some regular allowance races at other tracks...nothing says you have to put a lower quality stakes type and pit it against upper end quality stakes types....or just keep racing it at Trial Park against someone who has a better stakes type than what you ended up with.

Stormy