What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

Laura Smith wrote: 1 year ago
Carole Hanson wrote: 1 year ago
Gavin Guile wrote: 1 year ago If people don’t think the 350k matters then can people share the blue hen and stars they bred to stallions that earned less than 350k and what were the gallops?

I think it’s been clearly stated before that a horse’s ability takes a hit if they don’t earn 350k…..doesn’t matter if they earned 10m or 400k - as long as it’s over 350k the horses ability does not suffer.
This is the best documented example I can think of of a horse that didn't reach $350k but was an exceptional stallion: https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=461896

I remember Nena commenting and wondering what he would have been like as a sire if he HAD reached the 350k threshold because he was already so so good (iirc, he was THE top hypoing AWM stallion at the time).
There have been a couple good QH stallions under 350k as well. Rare, but it happens!

My understanding has always been that if they're under 350k they take a small hit to their ability, not that those over 350k get a boost, for what it's worth.
Yes this is exactly how I understand. Your stud ability takes a small hit if not reaching the 350k. So yes the stud potentially could have been better had he reached 350k, but only because the penalty would be removed.
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The Steward
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by The Steward »

Jon Xett wrote: 1 year ago
Nena Olson wrote: 1 year ago
Jack Meyer wrote: 1 year ago This stuff is fascinating and I'm kind of toying around with a few horses of mine. What about with the colts, I got one that said, hope to see in the breeding shed one day, I have an idea with fillies, but colts are a little harder to pin down. The one in question is a productive, so is this one supposed to improve enough to even have a shot at the shed?

Jack
I think the breeding shed number is already in place but it will be up to you to get the productive up to 350k if you want to stand him and get that additional extra boost.
Wow. I had not realized that there is an actual SIM calculation boost for horses that reach the $350k in earnings mark. I knew that the stated $350k mark was a target and "suggested level" to stand a stud (and the relatively new $50k to initially stand) to keep out the riff-raff not-worthy studs. Do you all know for certain that there was a very real stallion boost associated with the earnings.

If so, I shall have to go visit the barn and permanently evict my riff-raff. jX
I have barely skimmed this thread at all, but wanted to note the discrepancy here - there is not a BOOST for stallions that reach the $350k mark. There is a KNOCK against stallions that don't - and there's a difference between them!
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Mary Whalen
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Mary Whalen »

I'm late to the debate but I finally found the mare that changed:

Y63-Preseason Trainer: 'Hunting for Queens' sure moves like a very nice horse! This horse looks to be about at their peak, but even I can’t always predict the future! I would insure 'Hunting for Queens' if you can afford it. You wouldn't want to lose this one!
Y62-W15-D7 Galloped
Y62-W15-D7 Trainer: 'Hunting for Queens' moved easily! I hope she isn't a morning glory. This horse looks to be a late bloomer. You should bring her along carefully. I wouldn't bother insuring 'Hunting for Queens' right now, unless you're attached to the pedigree.

So guess there's another element to the insure comments with it can change
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The Steward
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by The Steward »

Mary Whalen wrote: 1 year ago I'm late to the debate but I finally found the mare that changed:

Y63-Preseason Trainer: 'Hunting for Queens' sure moves like a very nice horse! This horse looks to be about at their peak, but even I can’t always predict the future! I would insure 'Hunting for Queens' if you can afford it. You wouldn't want to lose this one!
Y62-W15-D7 Galloped
Y62-W15-D7 Trainer: 'Hunting for Queens' moved easily! I hope she isn't a morning glory. This horse looks to be a late bloomer. You should bring her along carefully. I wouldn't bother insuring 'Hunting for Queens' right now, unless you're attached to the pedigree.

So guess there's another element to the insure comments with it can change
I'm side-eyeing this mare hard.... I would not have expected to see this. I'll do some digging.
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Mr. Lord Rich
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

"right now"
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Dave Trainer
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Dave Trainer »

The Steward wrote: 1 year ago
Mary Whalen wrote: 1 year ago I'm late to the debate but I finally found the mare that changed:

Y63-Preseason Trainer: 'Hunting for Queens' sure moves like a very nice horse! This horse looks to be about at their peak, but even I can’t always predict the future! I would insure 'Hunting for Queens' if you can afford it. You wouldn't want to lose this one!
Y62-W15-D7 Galloped
Y62-W15-D7 Trainer: 'Hunting for Queens' moved easily! I hope she isn't a morning glory. This horse looks to be a late bloomer. You should bring her along carefully. I wouldn't bother insuring 'Hunting for Queens' right now, unless you're attached to the pedigree.

So guess there's another element to the insure comments with it can change
I'm side-eyeing this mare hard.... I would not have expected to see this. I'll do some digging.
Allowance and above get the insure if you can afford comment. Productive and below get wouldn't bother insuring.
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John Smith
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by John Smith »

Stormy Peak wrote: 1 year ago I, honestly, don't think it really matters about the $350,000 mark. I think you get what you get no matter the money earned or the quality of the pedigree. Getting over $350,000 will give a bump up, but I don't think it's going to make much difference.

This comes from me having stallions that on the track, that earned at least a million, and several earned 2 or 3 million on the track, some winning at least 4 Grade one races, all had Very NICE Pedigrees and all either ended up being crap stallions or 'so so' stallions.

I've also seen this with stallions owned by others...absolutely gorgeous pedigrees, millionaire earners but as a stallion...nothing. Then someone comes along with a stallion that didn't do squat no G1 wins, nor have as stellar pedigree of many other failed stallions, and it's nicking A+ with mares.

So I'm not going to get my panties in a knot over whether a horse earned $350,000 or not. Because from I've seen with the stallions...I think it's just a random hit or miss - pedigree and track earnings be dam--d.


Two months ago, in a PM with the Steward, I asked about this, because of a stallion here in the Sim who never won a G1,
-------------Part of my PM to her------
Sire:
Valley of Fire:
www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=1304765

~It took him until he was age 6 to retire, and he didn't even break the $500,000 mark. [Earned: $450,700]
~He won only two G3 races as far as graded stakes.
~His sire and other sires in his pedigree are what I would consider 'so-so' average stallions...with the exception of Man of Mystery who was a mega wonder as far as stallions go.

~Dams...kind of the same...City On Fire produced a few millionaires but the rest of the dams weren't exactly consistent in producing upper end offspring.

So I don't understand the $150,000 stud fee for both thoroughbred and mix-breed stud fees.
Nor the fact that So Many People are breeding to him!
-------------

Her reply in essence was - he was nicking mares better than Dave Matthews Band so people were willing to drop over $100,000 in stud fees to send mares to him...but it would still remain to be seen if he would be a better stallion.

--------------


So... yeah, I don't and never will understand how the Sim computer 'decides' which stallion gets to have those high nicks or why one super great pedigree stallion who's won 4 or 5 Grade one races, gets to a super stallion...while another stallion of the same quality breeding and track wins, can't sire anything better than an allowance...when both are getting high quality broodmares at the start of their careers.

Don't get me wrong... I think it's great that a more humble stallion is doing well...kind of like in Real Life when Seattle Slew became a super stallion, in spite of having a pedigree that at the time wasn't considered to be outstanding.

He only got great mares because he won a ton of money and G1 races, including the Triple Crown.
But what would have happened if early in his career he would have been injured....would anyone have been that attracted to his pedigree? Probably not, and he probably would have never got the quality of mares that he did get.

So, I think it's fun that the Sim gets stallions like that upon occasion.

So for those reasons, I just gave up on stallion expectations when I retire a nice horse. The Sim computer programming is going to just do a dart throw anyway, in my opinion. :P

Stormy

I got this colt, that got breeding shed comment but can't win maiden despite being in three different barns. So, should I retire and send it to stud and see? I think it started stakes then new gallops went allowance and now degraded to productive. He has always been peak from what I know.

Is it that his breeding is now better than prod or will he be a nick like valley of fire? Or does the -350k degrade him to make this experiment irrelevant?

He is well bred. https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1451122
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Carole Hanson
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Carole Hanson »

Would be an interesting experiment, but bar Ekin mind 350k means the stud doesn’t reach his full stallion potential. Considering he was likely a low stakes, I’d say it would be a given that his breeding ability would be higher than his racing ability. But I would say don’t count on getting any good hypos from him, he’ll most likely be bleh.
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by LA Pepper »

He IS well bred because he has the same breeding (Strong and Free x See You Monday) as a lot of sucessful runners and stallions (so, one, do we need one more?).
but he is not a great runner so he did not inherit the better genes of that cross, and if he doesn't have the great genes , he can't pass them on.
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Nicole Marie »

John Smith wrote: 1 year ago
I got this colt, that got breeding shed comment but can't win maiden despite being in three different barns. So, should I retire and send it to stud and see? I think it started stakes then new gallops went allowance and now degraded to productive. He has always been peak from what I know.

Is it that his breeding is now better than prod or will he be a nick like valley of fire? Or does the -350k degrade him to make this experiment irrelevant?

He is well bred. https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1451122
IIRC, you can't stand a horse that hasn't broken his maiden.
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John Smith
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by John Smith »

Nicole Marie wrote: 1 year ago
John Smith wrote: 1 year ago
I got this colt, that got breeding shed comment but can't win maiden despite being in three different barns. So, should I retire and send it to stud and see? I think it started stakes then new gallops went allowance and now degraded to productive. He has always been peak from what I know.

Is it that his breeding is now better than prod or will he be a nick like valley of fire? Or does the -350k degrade him to make this experiment irrelevant?

He is well bred. https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1451122
IIRC, you can't stand a horse that hasn't broken his maiden.
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Gwen Morse »

The Steward wrote: 1 year ago I have barely skimmed this thread at all, but wanted to note the discrepancy here - there is not a BOOST for stallions that reach the $350k mark. There is a KNOCK against stallions that don't - and there's a difference between them!
From a programming perspective there's a difference, from our perspective there isn't. It's like a half glass of water :D.

A stallion has one number (set of numbers?) if they reach 350k in earnings.
The same stallion has a different, lower number (set of numbers ?) if they don't reach 350k.

If you're an optimist, you think of the glass being half-full and the horse getting a "bonus" for reaching 350k.
If you're a pessimist, you think of the glass being half-empty and the horse getting a "penalty" for not reaching 350k.

Where it matters in this thread is that if a horse rates a "breeding shed" comment and then doesn't earn $350k+, they may potentially lose enough points to not rate "breeding shed" anymore, but no horse will ever get a bonus to earn a "breeding shed" rating after reaching 350k.
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Carole Hanson
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Carole Hanson »

Hello, I am back with 3 "freak" galloper examples. 2 with the "breeding shed" comment and 1 with the "longer career" comment:

1) Easy to See Why-DR BREEDING SHED
Y63-Preseason Trainer: Oh, my! 'Easy to See Why' is a freak! This horse looks to be about at their peak, but even I can’t always predict the future! I'm really hoping to see 'Easy to See Why' in the breeding shed one day!
Y63-W4-D7 Agent: 'Easy to See Why' looks like a blue hen, what a special mare! Unfortunately, 'Easy to See Why' probably won't produce a very good steeplechaser.
Hypos:
Astro: A
Steamboat WIllie: A
Valley of Fire: A

2) Snow Kitty-TR BREEDING SHED
Y63-W2-D1 Trainer: 'Snow Kitty': Freaky! This horse looks to be about at their peak, but even I can’t always predict the future! I'm really hoping to see 'Snow Kitty' in the breeding shed one day!
Y63-W6-D2 Agent: 'Snow Kitty' looks like a blue hen, what a special mare! Unfortunately, 'Snow Kitty' probably won't produce a very good steeplechaser.
Hypos:
Impacts: A-
Still Fire: A-
Henry VII: B+
Improvisational: B+

3) Love Can Fail-TR LONGER CAREER
Y63-W2-D3 Trainer: Oh, my! 'Love Can Fail' is a freak! This horse looks to be about at their peak, but even I can’t always predict the future! You can plan for 'Love Can Fail' to have a longer career if you want.
Y63-W4-D5 Agent: 'Love Can Fail' looks like a blue hen, what a special mare! Unfortunately, 'Love Can Fail' probably won't produce a very good steeplechaser.
Hypos:
A Fighter: A
All the Way Up: A
First Class: A
Henry VII: A
Impacts: A
Still Fire: A
Freddy With a Y: A-
Moonlighte Sonata: A-
Voyage: A-

So this information has made me somewhat confused, considering how badly Snow Kitty is hypoing
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Anthony Zappulla »

Thanks for sharing!!
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John Smith
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by John Smith »

Carole Hanson wrote: 1 year ago Hello, I am back with 3 "freak" galloper examples. 2 with the "breeding shed" comment and 1 with the "longer career" comment:

1) Easy to See Why-DR BREEDING SHED
Y63-Preseason Trainer: Oh, my! 'Easy to See Why' is a freak! This horse looks to be about at their peak, but even I can’t always predict the future! I'm really hoping to see 'Easy to See Why' in the breeding shed one day!
Y63-W4-D7 Agent: 'Easy to See Why' looks like a blue hen, what a special mare! Unfortunately, 'Easy to See Why' probably won't produce a very good steeplechaser.
Hypos:
Astro: A
Steamboat WIllie: A
Valley of Fire: A

2) Snow Kitty-TR BREEDING SHED
Y63-W2-D1 Trainer: 'Snow Kitty': Freaky! This horse looks to be about at their peak, but even I can’t always predict the future! I'm really hoping to see 'Snow Kitty' in the breeding shed one day!
Y63-W6-D2 Agent: 'Snow Kitty' looks like a blue hen, what a special mare! Unfortunately, 'Snow Kitty' probably won't produce a very good steeplechaser.
Hypos:
Impacts: A-
Still Fire: A-
Henry VII: B+
Improvisational: B+

3) Love Can Fail-TR LONGER CAREER
Y63-W2-D3 Trainer: Oh, my! 'Love Can Fail' is a freak! This horse looks to be about at their peak, but even I can’t always predict the future! You can plan for 'Love Can Fail' to have a longer career if you want.
Y63-W4-D5 Agent: 'Love Can Fail' looks like a blue hen, what a special mare! Unfortunately, 'Love Can Fail' probably won't produce a very good steeplechaser.
Hypos:
A Fighter: A
All the Way Up: A
First Class: A
Henry VII: A
Impacts: A
Still Fire: A
Freddy With a Y: A-
Moonlighte Sonata: A-
Voyage: A-

So this information has made me somewhat confused, considering how badly Snow Kitty is hypoing
I think longer career signifies durability rather than breeding prowess perhaps...Steward quotes the one that got insure then longer career "side-eyed"

my 2 cents - thanks for this above, it reinjects the hopes dashed when the few STAKES horses I bred got longer careers!...so this is what it is like to have a freak and a blue hen, huh?!
Show Good Times Farm
Quetzalcoatl (TM) 12.5k
Gord's Secret (TS) 48.5k*
Five Star Hotel (TR) 23.5k
King of Fools (DS) 12.5k
La Joya (TR) 10k
Dancinginmyshadow (TS) 5k
Kefren (TS) 5k
Arabian Comet (TS)
Endless River (TR)
* rebates available
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