What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

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Anthony Zappulla
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Anthony Zappulla »

Jon Xett wrote: 1 year ago
Nena Olson wrote: 1 year ago
Jack Meyer wrote: 1 year ago This stuff is fascinating and I'm kind of toying around with a few horses of mine. What about with the colts, I got one that said, hope to see in the breeding shed one day, I have an idea with fillies, but colts are a little harder to pin down. The one in question is a productive, so is this one supposed to improve enough to even have a shot at the shed?

Jack
I think the breeding shed number is already in place but it will be up to you to get the productive up to 350k if you want to stand him and get that additional extra boost.
Wow. I had not realized that there is an actual SIM calculation boost for horses that reach the $350k in earnings mark. I knew that the stated $350k mark was a target and "suggested level" to stand a stud (and the relatively new $50k to initially stand) to keep out the riff-raff not-worthy studs. Do you all know for certain that there was a very real stallion boost associated with the earnings.

If so, I shall have to go visit the barn and permanently evict my riff-raff. jX
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Ash Tarasin
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Ash Tarasin »

Jon Xett wrote: 1 year ago Wow. I had not realized that there is an actual SIM calculation boost for horses that reach the $350k in earnings mark. I knew that the stated $350k mark was a target and "suggested level" to stand a stud (and the relatively new $50k to initially stand) to keep out the riff-raff not-worthy studs. Do you all know for certain that there was a very real stallion boost associated with the earnings.
If so, I shall have to go visit the barn and permanently evict my riff-raff. jX
Or maybe they simply don't reach their full potential if they don't manage to crawl past 350k. Having said that, I'm 99% certain The Steward has said that good nicks will still be good nicks, even if they potentially could have been higher. If you have high-nicking Riff-Raff, they are actually high-nicking.
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Gavin Guile
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Gavin Guile »

Ash is correct, there is no stallion boost. It’s just if a horse does not reach the 350k threshold then that horses stallion ability take a bit of a hit from it’s true level.
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Polk Buffalo »

And this "bit" they are lacking from full potential, how big is that? In my head I think it is a 2% reduction from full capacity. I have no idea where I got that number from. I might have read it somewhere but don't really remember. Some stallions (ie.Regression) was the best nicking paint sprinter and gave pretty good offspring even though he never reached the 350k mark.
2% isnt that much. I will surely nick all my freak colts/horses that fail to earn 350k from now on if they have the breeding shed comment.
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Nena Olson
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Nena Olson »

Jon Xett wrote: 1 year ago
Nena Olson wrote: 1 year ago
Jack Meyer wrote: 1 year ago This stuff is fascinating and I'm kind of toying around with a few horses of mine. What about with the colts, I got one that said, hope to see in the breeding shed one day, I have an idea with fillies, but colts are a little harder to pin down. The one in question is a productive, so is this one supposed to improve enough to even have a shot at the shed?

Jack
I think the breeding shed number is already in place but it will be up to you to get the productive up to 350k if you want to stand him and get that additional extra boost.
Wow. I had not realized that there is an actual SIM calculation boost for horses that reach the $350k in earnings mark. I knew that the stated $350k mark was a target and "suggested level" to stand a stud (and the relatively new $50k to initially stand) to keep out the riff-raff not-worthy studs. Do you all know for certain that there was a very real stallion boost associated with the earnings.

If so, I shall have to go visit the barn and permanently evict my riff-raff. jX
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54688&hilit=%24350k&start=15 has Em talking about the importance of $350k. There is a point where she talks more about it but I have no idea where it is. Potential cut for not reaching $350k, is basically the same as 350k boosting them to their full potential so tomato or tomato.
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Jon Xett »

Just snuck into my Riff Raff stud barn (those I paid the $50,000 to stand) to check on my ne'er-do-wells (those that earned less than $350,000) to see what they are up to.

Again and Again snorted and told me to take a hike. Rude.
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Help Myself was folding a stack of $100 bills into triangle "footballs" and kicking them out the stall dutch door window. Wasted.
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jX
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Andrew James
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Andrew James »

Nena Olson wrote: 1 year ago I retired -
a longer career productive and got formidable.
longer career allowance and got formidable
longer career allowance and got good mare
breeding shed allowance and got blue hen
breeding shed allowance another blue hen
breeding shed allowance #3 and another blue hen

I think its safe to say there is a correlation here.
From everything people have publicly shared I would say there is definitely a very strong correlation.
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Stormy Peak
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Stormy Peak »

I, honestly, don't think it really matters about the $350,000 mark. I think you get what you get no matter the money earned or the quality of the pedigree. Getting over $350,000 will give a bump up, but I don't think it's going to make much difference.

This comes from me having stallions that on the track, that earned at least a million, and several earned 2 or 3 million on the track, some winning at least 4 Grade one races, all had Very NICE Pedigrees and all either ended up being crap stallions or 'so so' stallions.

I've also seen this with stallions owned by others...absolutely gorgeous pedigrees, millionaire earners but as a stallion...nothing. Then someone comes along with a stallion that didn't do squat no G1 wins, nor have as stellar pedigree of many other failed stallions, and it's nicking A+ with mares.

So I'm not going to get my panties in a knot over whether a horse earned $350,000 or not. Because from I've seen with the stallions...I think it's just a random hit or miss - pedigree and track earnings be dam--d.


Two months ago, in a PM with the Steward, I asked about this, because of a stallion here in the Sim who never won a G1,
-------------Part of my PM to her------
Sire:
Valley of Fire:
www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=1304765

~It took him until he was age 6 to retire, and he didn't even break the $500,000 mark. [Earned: $450,700]
~He won only two G3 races as far as graded stakes.
~His sire and other sires in his pedigree are what I would consider 'so-so' average stallions...with the exception of Man of Mystery who was a mega wonder as far as stallions go.

~Dams...kind of the same...City On Fire produced a few millionaires but the rest of the dams weren't exactly consistent in producing upper end offspring.

So I don't understand the $150,000 stud fee for both thoroughbred and mix-breed stud fees.
Nor the fact that So Many People are breeding to him!
-------------

Her reply in essence was - he was nicking mares better than Dave Matthews Band so people were willing to drop over $100,000 in stud fees to send mares to him...but it would still remain to be seen if he would be a better stallion.

--------------


So... yeah, I don't and never will understand how the Sim computer 'decides' which stallion gets to have those high nicks or why one super great pedigree stallion who's won 4 or 5 Grade one races, gets to a super stallion...while another stallion of the same quality breeding and track wins, can't sire anything better than an allowance...when both are getting high quality broodmares at the start of their careers.

Don't get me wrong... I think it's great that a more humble stallion is doing well...kind of like in Real Life when Seattle Slew became a super stallion, in spite of having a pedigree that at the time wasn't considered to be outstanding.

He only got great mares because he won a ton of money and G1 races, including the Triple Crown.
But what would have happened if early in his career he would have been injured....would anyone have been that attracted to his pedigree? Probably not, and he probably would have never got the quality of mares that he did get.

So, I think it's fun that the Sim gets stallions like that upon occasion.

So for those reasons, I just gave up on stallion expectations when I retire a nice horse. The Sim computer programming is going to just do a dart throw anyway, in my opinion. :P

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Gavin Guile
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Gavin Guile »

If people don’t think the 350k matters then can people share the blue hen and stars they bred to stallions that earned less than 350k and what were the gallops?

I think it’s been clearly stated before that a horse’s ability takes a hit if they don’t earn 350k…..doesn’t matter if they earned 10m or 400k - as long as it’s over 350k the horses ability does not suffer.
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Joseph Depaulo »

Gavin Guile wrote: 1 year ago If people don’t think the 350k matters then can people share the blue hen and stars they bred to stallions that earned less than 350k and what were the gallops?

I think it’s been clearly stated before that a horse’s ability takes a hit if they don’t earn 350k…..doesn’t matter if they earned 10m or 400k - as long as it’s over 350k the horses ability does not suffer.
I don’t think the ability changes I think the Hypos take a hit but I’m not 100% sure about this
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Gavin Guile »

Joseph Depaulo wrote: 1 year ago
Gavin Guile wrote: 1 year ago If people don’t think the 350k matters then can people share the blue hen and stars they bred to stallions that earned less than 350k and what were the gallops?

I think it’s been clearly stated before that a horse’s ability takes a hit if they don’t earn 350k…..doesn’t matter if they earned 10m or 400k - as long as it’s over 350k the horses ability does not suffer.
I don’t think the ability changes I think the Hypos take a hit but I’m not 100% sure about this
I am sure but maybe the steward or admin can confirm
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Tammy Stawicki
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Tammy Stawicki »

Back to the discussion on the "insure" comment with a bonus quote on the 350k. In this thread (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54688&hilit=insure&start=15) the steward said it was not just based on gallop comments and was an overall thing looking at improvement potential and breeding shed potential.

To quote "People are falsely equating insure with a gallop level. Insure is more an overall thing, gallop level OR breeding shed OR possibility of jumping. It's not just "must be an allowance gallop" answer here.

But as noted earlier, if he's NOT going to jump, it doesn't matter how good he might be in the shed if he doesn't hit that $350k."

That being said looking at my horses all but 2 of my now 2yo allowance gallopers and above got the insure comment and none of the ones below allowance did. Of the 2 that didn't, they were both longer career horses. Though I also had 9 out of 22 allowance gallopers that did get the comment that were also longer career.

Also kind of interesting both the ones that didn't get the comment were late bloomers whereas I had peak allowance gallopers get the insure comment. Also important in this conversation my 2 horses that didn't get the comment also didn't get the don't insure comment so they may be slated for the insure comment and it just hasn't come through yet.
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Gwen Morse »

Carole Hanson wrote: 1 year ago So far, I have only seen insure comments on horses that are allowance up and I've definitely come across some that are insure but have the longer career comment. Pretty sure the insurance comment is just about gallop level, and the breeding shed/longer career comment is just about breeding level.

Found an example: https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1564296
Y62-Preseason Trainer: I would insure 'Magnifeat' if you can afford it. You wouldn't want to lose this one! This horse should progress throughout their career, but don’t wait too long to get them to the races!
Y62-W16-D6 Trainer: 'Magnifeat' is a stakes quality horse. This horse should progress throughout their career, but don’t wait too long to get them to the races! You can plan for 'Magnifeat' to have a longer career if you want.
The insure comment can't purely be for gallop level as every horse allowance and above would get it and they don't.

Also, the Steward has flat out said that equating insurance comment with a gallop is wrong:

People are falsely equating insure with a gallop level. Insure is more an overall thing, gallop level OR breeding shed OR possibility of jumping. It's not just "must be an allowance gallop" answer here.

The insure comment refers to one of at least three things:

* The horse has good running potential.
* The horse has good breeding potential.
* The horse is likely to have a "jump".

Rather than thinking of it as being a particular gallop level, it may be easier to think of it as the horse being likely to be up near the top of their particular gallop level (or breeding level) points. The insure comment means something like "this horse is VERY GOOD for their gallop label" or "VERY GOOD for their BMS comment/nick" or "is VERY LIKELY to jump in class".

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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Gwen Morse »

Nena Olson wrote: 1 year ago I retired -
a longer career productive and got formidable.
longer career allowance and got formidable
longer career allowance and got good mare
breeding shed allowance and got blue hen
breeding shed allowance another blue hen
breeding shed allowance #3 and another blue hen

I think its safe to say there is a correlation here.
This is what we need, except in larger numbers. Are there any mass breeders willing to "take one for the team" and retire/BSA a bunch of 2 y/o fillies as an experiment and post the total results?
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Carole Hanson
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Re: What do you think of the Comments Insure and Longer Career together

Post by Carole Hanson »

I think we'll have to wait and see if any of those productive and below that got the 'don't insure' comment, will get the 'insure' comment once they jump up in gallop. Also, I have an example of a horse that is:
-Claimer/Late Bloomer
-Has the 'breeding shed' comment
-Has the 'wouldn't insure right now' comment
https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1550745

Suggests to me that the insurance comment is only referring to the horse's race ability rather than having anything to do with breeding, since the two comments directly interfere with each other. Although the 'don't insure' comment could in theory also refer to the possibility that this filly will at most peak to productive or something like that and be a formidable broodmare? Idk, more tests need to be done. However, I have yet to see a productive or below get the insure comment, or an allowance or above get the don't insure comment. I'm not saying SIM management didn't intend the comment to be as The Steward mentioned in her post, but it's entirely possible it hasn't worked in the way they hoped it would and is actually more simplified.
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