1-2 start improvers

[Andrew Chillin]

Has anyone tried routers in sprints just to see if this works? A race is a race right? So theoretically if you raced and it was going to jump it would in any race. Obviously you wouldn’t know from the start but if they’re improvers but you could gallop after 2 races and see if it happened.

[Nicole Marie]

I tried it last year with a couple 2yos, especially if the race wound up with 5 or fewer runners so they'd get a small check too. As to whether or not it worked, this one did win her routing debut, but that could have been a coincidence and I did BT her before it.

Do we know if the gallop level always changes, or if the horse could for example go from low allowance to high allowance after a jump?

[Darcy McBride]

It doesn't always jump up a level. I've had many that do jump up; and many that just go from an Allowance/LB to an Allowance/Peak.

[Ash Tarasin]

.. and many that just go from an Allowance/LB to an Allowance/Peak.

Would you know if they then "levelled up" again (regardless of being peak already) later on, or if the peak caused by racing was the peak (that would have otherwise happen later anyway - if kept unraced) .

[Shannon Hunt]

.. and many that just go from an Allowance/LB to an Allowance/Peak.

Would you know if they then "levelled up" again (regardless of being peak already) later on, or if the peak caused by racing was the peak (that would have otherwise happen later anyway - if kept unraced) .

If I'm interpreting your question correctly, I have asked this before, and the answer I got was that if a horse has a first- or second race improvement in the tank, it MUST run a race to have that improvement - it won't just "come naturally" later. But some horses do have a maturity improvement on top of that as well. I had an allowance bloomer jump to freak bloomer in her first race (then adjusted to stakes bloomer when gallop thresholds were fiddled with, then eventually bloomed to freak peak). And I've also had an allowance bloomer jump to stakes peak in her first race and then stay at that level the rest of her career. I don't think she had a secret stakes peak -> stakes peak improve anywhere in the middle, because her maiden race was her fastest speed figure and after that she was mostly consistent in quality without a really noticeable improvement.

This is from my own observation and how I interpreted the answer I got when I asked about this, but disclaimer disclaimer I could be wrong of course.

[Ash Tarasin]

Thank you, Shannon. You came close to interpreting my Swenglish correctly.
What you are saying is that if the horse is never raced you'd only get the age-related peak?
But what if you race it and it peaks, would you get the age-related improvement later (or was it included in the race-peak)? And likewise, if you wait until it age-peaks and then race it, would you still get the first/second race-related improvement peak?
..
And to the topic - starter, intuitively distance/surface shouldn't matter (a race is a race), but I don't know. All of my known improvers (which have been very few) were racing on their preferred distance/surface.

[Nicole Marie]

It doesn't always jump up a level. I've had many that do jump up; and many that just go from an Allowance/LB to an Allowance/Peak.

So have I with the regular gallops, but I wasn't sure if that can happen with a race jump too.

[Darcy McBride]

That I do not know. But I guess anything is possible...

[Nicole Marie]

I did just have a turf router filly run 3rd in a 6f stakes. She's allowance lb, so I'll gallop her in a few days and see if that changes. I may or may not race her again before the routes open up, but I figured it'd be good to get some experience under her belt.

[Nicole Marie]

Well I've entered a handful of routers in W6D1 sprints (with 5 or less runners total, so at least I get some small checks for my troubles) and I'll see if any of them get an improve after.

[Nicole Marie]

Slight update:

I ran three routers - Aftershow (DR), Jane McKeene (TR), Hold to the Fire (TR) and Quiet Impact (TR) in sprint races on W6D1. Aftershow and Jane are allowance LB, Quiet Impact solid LB, Hold to the Fire claimer LB. All four remained at their same level after that one start. Now they could be two start improvers or they could be horses that aren't going to jump from racing at all, but as of right now no changes.

I also ran Cat With A C (TR) in a sprint stakes on W5D5, she ran 3rd of 5, and was allowance LB before the race and allowance LB after.

That said I would agree with your logic that 'a race is a race' so I feel like if they don't jump after their 2nd start, they just aren't horses who were going to jump from racing. I can't recall if horses with good pedigrees are more likely to jump from racing or if they're just more likely to jump again after hitting peak, but if any of that is true Jane would be the best odds to jump here since she's out of Roughian's full sister.

[Cleo Patra]

Slight update:

I ran three routers - Aftershow (DR), Jane McKeene (TR), Hold to the Fire (TR) and Quiet Impact (TR) in sprint races on W6D1. Aftershow and Jane are allowance LB, Quiet Impact solid LB, Hold to the Fire claimer LB. All four remained at their same level after that one start. Now they could be two start improvers or they could be horses that aren't going to jump from racing at all, but as of right now no changes.

I also ran Cat With A C (TR) in a sprint stakes on W5D5, she ran 3rd of 5, and was allowance LB before the race and allowance LB after.

That said I would agree with your logic that 'a race is a race' so I feel like if they don't jump after their 2nd start, they just aren't horses who were going to jump from racing. I can't recall if horses with good pedigrees are more likely to jump from racing or if they're just more likely to jump again after hitting peak, but if any of that is true Jane would be the best odds to jump here since she's out of Roughian's full sister.

You wouldn’t see the jump on any of those. The jump will only show after their 2nd start, and technically occurs at post time of their 2nd start. So it can impact that run, but won’t show in the gallop comment until after.

[Nicole Marie]

Slight update:

I ran three routers - Aftershow (DR), Jane McKeene (TR), Hold to the Fire (TR) and Quiet Impact (TR) in sprint races on W6D1. Aftershow and Jane are allowance LB, Quiet Impact solid LB, Hold to the Fire claimer LB. All four remained at their same level after that one start. Now they could be two start improvers or they could be horses that aren't going to jump from racing at all, but as of right now no changes.

I also ran Cat With A C (TR) in a sprint stakes on W5D5, she ran 3rd of 5, and was allowance LB before the race and allowance LB after.

That said I would agree with your logic that 'a race is a race' so I feel like if they don't jump after their 2nd start, they just aren't horses who were going to jump from racing. I can't recall if horses with good pedigrees are more likely to jump from racing or if they're just more likely to jump again after hitting peak, but if any of that is true Jane would be the best odds to jump here since she's out of Roughian's full sister.

You wouldn’t see the jump on any of those. The jump will only show after their 2nd start, and technically occurs at post time of their 2nd start. So it can impact that run, but won’t show in the gallop comment until after.

I will be updating again after their 2nd starts - I was under the impression it was more likely to happen after the second but could happen after the first, but either way, I'm checking them again after their 2nd.

[Shannon Hunt]

I usually breed a large enough crop that *something* should have a first-start improvement, even if it's not a big one. Someone remind me to investigate this in a structured manner next year, I don't mind sacrificing my stats for knowledge. (I'm quite convinced distance/division shouldn't matter, but always worth finding out for sure).