Vengeance or Grief

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Andrew James
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Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1173103

Now retired. Standing for 50k. He has been named dropped by The Steward on a few broadcasts as a potential sire to watch.

He is hypoing very well, right up there with the best in the division including a flat A which is pretty rare in DM. Goodluck.

Horse Flat Steeplechaser
The Fires of Heaven A C
Alloy of Law A- C
Gardensofthemoon A- C
Path of Hands A- C
Shadowspawn A- C
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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Mr. Lord Rich
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Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Mr. Lord Rich »

Nice, looks like a good one!!
A CAVAL DONATO NON SI GUARDA IN BOCCA
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Andrew James
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

Some more Hypo's from my mares:

The Fires of Heaven A C
Abrightnesslongago A- C
Alloy of Law A- C
Deck of Dragons A- C
Gardensofthemoon A- C
Hallowed Love A- C+
Hennan A- C
Luceiia A- C
Otataral A- C
Path of Hands A- C
Path to Ascendancy A- C
Shadow Campaigns A- C
Shadowspawn A- C
Tigana A- C
What Lies Unseen A- C
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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Andrew James
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

Gallops are in and VoG looks like a good one.

If we look past DMB who Im not sure is a Dirt Miler stallion he is tied for 1st in freak percentage, 1st in stakes, and top 4 in allowance. When his Late Bloomers start to bloom these numbers should only go up as well.

Will have some analysis on what crosses are working with him in the next couple days.

Save a spot for your top dirt miler broodmares. I am also planning a CDN bred stakes program for his babies.

Claimer 11 19.3%
Solid 9 15.8%
Productive 12 21.1%
Allowance 18 31.6%
Stakes 6 10.5%
Freak 1 1.8%
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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Andrew James
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

Im going to keep this updated over the years so be sure to check back for insights, feel free to contribute any patterns you are finding as well. I will keep all data to my own mares as I don't want to give away information on other people's horses.

What's working and what's not.

Let's start with the no fun zone. I sent some pretty decent mares from All of Time, Consecration and California Chrome to VoG. The result was 6 claimers, more than half of the total claimers in his first crop. A few of those were the first claimers from some of these mares. Im going to try a few more with these lines but early indications are to avoid them.

Now the fun zone. Dragon and Pegaus and Dubai Touchdown both had multiple Allowance + gallops and no bad ones. If we extend this out to include their sires Cyberman and Touchdown Raiders we add a freak and an allowance. Just an Act had some success, with 3 Allowance or better from 4 reported gallops. The other pattern to keep an eye on is the short router/miler mares (Blue Bayou, Doctor Who, Super) for example, the worst gallop I had from those 3 was a productive LB. Depending on how you classify Colby and Minions you could even extend that pattern to them. He seems able to shorten up short routers into milers but will confirm this with more testing and workout times.

Need more data zone. Spread like Fire had a mixed bag from Stakes to claimer, OfMonstersandMen had no bad ones, Pyrotechnic Guy inbreeding showed up a few times in allowance horses and Nightchill inbreeding seemed to work fairly well as well (6 of 9 allowance or better including 3 stakes +) although I need more data on Fightflamewithfire as he had an allowance and a claimer.

Foundation Sire Line Analysis

Some might find this intersting, please keep in mind these are small samples. I assigned every progeny a score on their gallop (1 for claimer, 6 for freak etc...) and the mares for their rating (1 for some potential, 5 for Blue Hen etc...) and then calculated some averages.

Sire Line....Offspring...Gallopscore..Average...Mares...Mare Score.....Average

Bold Ruler.......4.........9...........2.25..........2.......7....................3.50
Holy Bull........1.........1...........1.00..........0.......0....................#DIV/0!
In Excess........2.........5...........2.50..........1....... 4....................4.00
Mr. Prospector. 24.........79...........3.29..........19.......66....................3.47
Northern Danc. 11.........38........... 3.45.......... 8.......26.................... 3.25
Silver Buck.....15.........42...........2.80..........11.......42.................... 3.82

Something to keep an eye on here, Northern Dancer dam lines have seen the best gallops with the lowest quality of mare.
Last edited by Andrew James 3 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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Tom Mudgett
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Tom Mudgett »

Sending Just An Act mares to him worked well for me, Crociato stakes (star mare) and Arc of Justice allowance (should be good mare), both are late bloomers. The Nightchill inbreeding try was a bust (solid gallop).
Zarley - 25k - DM
Troika - 25k - DM
Timeweaver - 20k - DM
Swordsman - 15k - DM
Fra Mauro - 15k - DM
Some Rocky Socket - 10k - DM/DR
Cotton Eye Joe - 5k - DM
Bourg - 3.5k - DM
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Andrew James
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

Awesome, thanks for the intel Tom, goodluck with them.
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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Andrew James
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

https://www.simhorseracing.com/rankings ... e=&Type=-1

Current fastest dirt miler work by a yearling this year and currently the sire with the most yearling offspring in the top 50.
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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Andrew James
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

Vengeance or Grief has a Steward's Cup winner in his first crop.

https://www.simhorseracing.com/race.php?RaceID=1761150

His average progeny earnings are now significantly in excess of his stud fee.

https://www.simhorseracing.com/studbook ... ID=1173103
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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Andrew James
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

This young fella continues to impress in the shed. He now has his second SC winner: https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1362552

He also had a yearling sell for 6 million at the TBS sale earlier: https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1507850
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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Andrew James
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

Just a quick shameless plug for this dude who keeps kicking butt.

% Winners/Runners:75.3%
Avg $ Per Runner:$62,763
Median $ Per Runner:$22,650
Total Stakes Winners:24
% Stakes Winners:13.8%
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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Andrew James
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1536033

Look at this beautiful daughter of Vengeance or Grief.

He continues to be one of the best values at stud in the game. With a nearly highest in division percentage of stakes winners at 11.4%
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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Andrew James
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Re: Vengeance or Grief

Post by Andrew James »

Andrew James wrote: 1 year ago https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1536033

Look at this beautiful daughter of Vengeance or Grief.

He continues to be one of the best values at stud in the game. With a nearly highest in division percentage of stakes winners at 11.4%
This horse just won a SC race. VoG continues to pump out horses that win and win the big ones.
AJR SC Winners: Karsa, Can't Reconcile, The Reckoners, Amsterdam, Forge of Darkness, Nightchill, The Wheel of Time
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