Breeding/Culling and being a picky breeder (questions)

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Gwen Morse
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Joined: 4 years ago

Breeding/Culling and being a picky breeder (questions)

Post by Gwen Morse »

After getting back into the groove of racing and training yearlings after a 3-season break, I'm starting to think about my barn's "future". I'd like to step up my efforts and start trying to breed better quality horses and so I thought I'd ask all the selective (read: picky :) ) trainers, how do you run your breeding and training?

How do you decide which mares get pricey studs in a particular season, and which ones get a bargain stud (or mediocre home stud)? How do you decide which mares and foals to cull? How do training times factor into your decisions? What do you do with fillies with bad gallops - do you check them with the bloodstock agent/nick them with a strong stud, or just pension them and move on? Do you try to select very sound or sound legs, or is racing speed your only concern?

I'm curious about where people think being picky works for them, and where it seems less effective.
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Nicole Marie
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Re: Breeding/Culling and being a picky breeder (questions)

Post by Nicole Marie »

If I have a mare with a lot of black type, and she's a star or hen, I'll send her to a pricy stud if she nicks at least B+, but preferably A- or A. I've not had the fortune yet for an A+ nick. Or if a mare is formid but produces decent horses, then she can get a pricier stud as well. For example, I have a stakes and allowance progressive from a formidable mare (both breedings were B+ nicks), so I let her go visit DMB this year. (I joke that she asked me to go to him after she produced only one of those two, and I told her I needed to see a little more to prove the foal wasn't a fluke :lol: )

If a mare lower than formid gives me something nice, I'd probably send her back to that stallion to see if the nice foal was just the best slide I could get, and if the second foal was comparable, then if a pricier stud with similar breeding exists, I'll let her try that one.

Overall I rely on hypos more than anything else, but once I've narrowed it down by that, who gets the bargain studs and who gets the fancy guys will depend on broodmare rating OR what the mare has already produced. Another thing I'll factor in is where the stud is located. If I'm between two studs and one is in a location with a nice program for horses bred there, I'll likely go with that one just to have the option of state bred races.

If I get a horse with a disappointing gallop, I'll look at pedigree to see if I cull or keep. For example, I have a stakes winning broodmare out of an unpredictable mare who has almost no black type on her page. When that unpredictable mare foaled me a claimer progressive filly, I just pensioned her when she was done racing rather than look at the broodmare rating, because her half sister was very likely a fluke and I liked the breeding on her better than the claimer progressive filly anyway. Or I might hypo the horse to the highest hypoing stud in the division, and if that's a B, then she's going to become an eventer or rodeo horse.

Another one that I don't recommend but I will keep doing - I'll give sentimental favorites nicer studs, because I want to maximize their chances of getting something that can run at least somewhat competitively.
Notacatbutalawyer 16: 8-3-1, earnings of $381,300 Founder Stakes, Flat Out Stakes, Lexington Race Course Stakes, Dade County Classic, Sunshine State Stakes, Distorted Reality Stakes, Midnight in the Sahara Stakes
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Tammy Stawicki
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Re: Breeding/Culling and being a picky breeder (questions)

Post by Tammy Stawicki »

Here has been my strategy to keep a smaller stable

I am picky with what I breed. Mares I breed every year either were exceptional racers themselves or have produced some nice horses.
There is a second tier of mare that has a nice pedigree/race record or maybe some nice horses that I don't necessarily want to breed every year but do want some foals out of that I will rotate breeding and leasing
Then if a mare wasn't at least a multiple stakes racer and doesn't produce a stakes winning foal within a few foals I will likely sell

Admittedly I might not be as "tough" as that in reality but that is the goal

In terms of who to breed to I usually will come up with a list of top studs I want to breed as well as my own stallions I want to support and then match them with the mares that I think fit them best that haven't gone to them before. If a stallion is really pricey I'll usually limit them to mares that either have some form of exceptional quality or have proven they can produce nice foals though again not always

In terms of my stallions if they nick well I will support them by sending a couple mares there way each year, if they aren't nicking particularly well I usually send them a few mares early on to see what they can do but if those early foals don't impress me I'll stop using them. I never really heavily breed my own stallions as I keep a small stable and like using a mix of studs each year.

I don't think at all about soundness when breeding.

I actually race 99% of the horses I breed as I find most will make money at some level, though I am very quick to put horses in claimers if they can't compete outside of them and will just keep lowering the tag until they become competitive. If they aren't making money in even low level claimers then they will be pensioned.

On the filly front if I have a well bred filly with a poor gallop that says she will improve I'll often hold on to her to see if she does indeed improve before racing. Once I get to the point where she's peak if the gallop is still underwhelming if its a really really special pedigree I may just retire and try bloodstocking otherwise she'll likely run to see where she can be competitive.

I bloodstock agent all my mares when they retire, if I were going to try breeding a mare I'd want them to have at least 2 out of 3 in terms of
1) Good race record
2) Good pedigree
3) Good broodmare comment
Turf Miler studs
Hempstead
Nonego
Omnsicience

Paint Sprinter studs
Jersey
Lecythus*

Paint Mid studs
Corona Wagon Train*
Jacinth
Komati*
Livewires Turnpike*

Discounts for stakes winners/producers
* = multidistance potential
J.P Dogood
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Re: Breeding/Culling and being a picky breeder (questions)

Post by J.P Dogood »

With higher rated mares I try to focus on higher rated studs before I look at anything else. At any given time, I have a decent understanding of the top 5 sires in the divisions I run. I have been having better luck lately when there isnt a spec of inbreeding so any hen I have is going to the best possible sire with no inbreeding (or at worst 4x4).

That being said, all the best horses I have ever bred come from formidable mares and this is where I spend the most time and thought. First things first is go to the search tab and go through best progeny from a given dam sire (i.e if I have a DMB mare I look up DMB in the dam sire section and then sort by earnings). From here I look at sires, if there is one who comes up a lot in the top ten I try to breed to him, if hes not available, his best direct standing son. If you do this with Prince Louder in the dam sire section, you'll see the top two earning progeny are from Castles Crumble, so I would likely send him there.

Anything lower than formidable I probably wont breed unless there is some crazy sentimental value or the pedigree is top notch. This is also the spot I like to play with inbreeding a bit more. If I can get a cheap and interesting 3x3 I will likely give it a shot and see what happens.
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