I bred to VOF 111 times so you don't have to

[Sara Julin]

I got 4 when he was standing at 75k, then 2 at 150k (because I got desperate). 6 foals for myself is more than enough.

I would never dream of using another players horse over 100 times! 0o' Maybe I am too considerate towards other players, but there may be others who might want to use that stallion too who are not multi millionaires and are now forced to pay double to triple the amount you started with when you bred your foals (forcing the owner to raise the prices over and over again to not run out of slots) ^^''

Maybe I am just too considerate for this game?
But all luck to you and your 111 VOF foals!

And also a huge compliment to Gen for a amazing stallion. He really is something special hypo wise. Let's hope his foals can prove it on the track also

[Shannon Hunt]

Nobody forces an owner to raise stud fees just because a stallion is popular. See Impacts. But it's smart of Gen, supply vs demand and that income should be a huge boost for future investments.

Perhaps I too am too considerate for this game, as I got 7 foals by VoF when he was at 25k, and then while chatting with Gen had her send me a lease to cover the difference so they would meet his 75k fee after it went up. Personally I would not breed my entire herd to the same stud either, but that's just out of a selfish desire for bloodline diversity and because I think it's fun to use different stallions. I don't think anyone in the game owes it to others to avoid using a stallion, when new slots can always be added if they fill up (and if the stud fee is set appropriately, that's affordable even for exchange users).

[Carole Hanson]

While I can agree over 100 foals is excessive, nothing is stopping Tim from sending those mares so it’s not like he’s evil or breaking any rules, and the good thing is VOF keeps being opened up by Gen (which I’m super thankful for) so others DO have the opportunity to breed to him too.

The positive is that Gen got a s*it ton of money. The negative is that Tim sent whichever mare he could which means quite a few will most likely end up being bad and will probably drag his stats down somewhat. However, if he produces as good as he hypos, and his foals produce on the track, no one will care about the bad ones who will get lost in the shuffle. Gallop stats matter for about 2 seasons when a stud is new, after that, the racing record of a stallions foals is what makes or breaks him.

[Danny Derby]

Stallion hypo grades have been a fundamental problem for the game for ages, but they’re also one of the biggest cash cows with hypo mates. No idea how or if this ever gets resolved.

What I’d like them to be are a rating on the actual pedigree cross you selected.

What they actually are is Mare Breeding Number + Stallion Breeding Number converted to a grade.

In my mind, if you hypo two full sisters to the same stallion they should give you the same Hypo grade, even if one is a blue hen and the other is an unpredictable.

[Gwayne's World]

Like a lot of you, I've had B+ hypos become freaks. And can't miss A hypos turn out to be clunkers.
The best laid plans are dependent on a generous slide!

[Nicole Marie]

In my mind, if you hypo two full sisters to the same stallion they should give you the same Hypo grade, even if one is a blue hen and the other is an unpredictable.

Same here - Stormy kindly free leased me Outlawed this year, and she's a flat A to Improvisational (who I bred her to). But Roughian is an A- to him. They are full sisters, Night's Quiet/Fortitiude. They are both blue hens. At least so far, Roughian has been the better broodmare with two 100K plus earners from three foals to race. So I can't make my brain understand why Outlawed hypos better to a stallion than Roughian does.

From Roughian's lease auction page


And

[Shannon Hunt]

Like a lot of you, I've had B+ hypos become freaks. And can't miss A hypos turn out to be clunkers.
The best laid plans are dependent on a generous slide!

My best horse was from a flat B hypo. He only exists because I needed to breed an extra colt somewhere so I could get a filly from a much nicer cross. Idk what happened to that filly, she's probably pensioned somewhere.

Ride the Slide™

[Tim Matthews]

I’ve always liked you Tim, but on this you’ve driven his price up to ridiculous numbers.

I've always liked you too! I'm not fragile, so don't worry about prefacing with that.

I am simply not responsible for his price being where it's at. He started out at 25k - I bred zero foals. Then he was raised to 75k. I bred about 50 foals. I bred the rest AFTER he was raised to 150k, which is where he is at now. Further, 150k is not a ridiculous price for him. It might even prove to be too low. Recall that DMB's hypos were unheard of when he first retired. VOF is the only stud that hypos better, so it stands to reason that he should at least be decent. That's why I did this little experiment. I have the means, and his book has remained open. He's been handled very smartly by Gen. It's a huge risk for me, but it's not like I'm depriving anyone else of anything or causing his price to go up. It's just a fun little thing on the horse game that I play on the computer!

I got 4 when he was standing at 75k, then 2 at 150k (because I got desperate). 6 foals for myself is more than enough.

I would never dream of using another players horse over 100 times! 0o' Maybe I am too considerate towards other players, but there may be others who might want to use that stallion too who are not multi millionaires and are now forced to pay double to triple the amount you started with when you bred your foals (forcing the owner to raise the prices over and over again to not run out of slots) ^^''

Maybe I am just too considerate for this game?
But all luck to you and your 111 VOF foals!

And also a huge compliment to Gen for a amazing stallion. He really is something special hypo wise. Let's hope his foals can prove it on the track also

Excuse me? Forgive me if I am misreading, but "Maybe I am too considerate" strikes me as very passive-aggressive and condescending. Please see my above response to Nick for a demonstration on how I am categorically NOT responsible for VOF's price. I haven't forced Gen to raise prices; for that matter, I haven't forced her to do anything! Calling me inconsiderate seems to solve no problems at all. Thanks for wishing me luck, though!

For any others in this thread - If you are going to blame me for stuff, you had better come with receipts. Thanks!

[Tim Matthews]

No point looking at lines etc as it doesn't matter, stallion hypo is all that counts

We live in an age where hypos are more important than almost anything.

I've been out of the loop, but is this really the prevailing wisdom now?

I think quite a number of players, especially if you are a volume/numbers type operation, take that approach. I still think pedigree and performance play a role, and so while the hypo can be one factor for me, it isn't the only factor. I mean, Maelstrom sired several Derby winners, and he hypo'd about a half a grade worse than some of the other top hypoing stallions (B+ instead of an A-) at that time. I also think more dirt routers/turf routers recently are hypoing better, so that may start diluting the usefulness of the hypo. But, yes, I think enough players give weight to the hypo that it may make it harder to establish a stallion that hypos A- instead of A. Also, if all the best mares are going to the A hypo-ing stallion, that starts creating a self-fulfilling prophecy - is it because of the hypo? Or is it because of the mare quality?

This is dead on. Smart breeders always take into consideration much more than the hypo. I don't think Susie ever hypo'd at all. My fun (and expensive) experiment will give just another data point, because VOF is a very interesting test case. It is unfortunate that some studs struggle to find footing due to hypos, but it is a function of the current system.

Stallion hypo grades have been a fundamental problem for the game for ages, but they’re also one of the biggest cash cows with hypo mates. No idea how or if this ever gets resolved.

What I’d like them to be are a rating on the actual pedigree cross you selected.

What they actually are is Mare Breeding Number + Stallion Breeding Number converted to a grade.

In my mind, if you hypo two full sisters to the same stallion they should give you the same Hypo grade, even if one is a blue hen and the other is an unpredictable.

Very well said. These are my thoughts exactly.

[Sara Julin]

I got 4 when he was standing at 75k, then 2 at 150k (because I got desperate). 6 foals for myself is more than enough.

I would never dream of using another players horse over 100 times! 0o' Maybe I am too considerate towards other players, but there may be others who might want to use that stallion too who are not multi millionaires and are now forced to pay double to triple the amount you started with when you bred your foals (forcing the owner to raise the prices over and over again to not run out of slots) ^^''

Maybe I am just too considerate for this game?
But all luck to you and your 111 VOF foals!

And also a huge compliment to Gen for a amazing stallion. He really is something special hypo wise. Let's hope his foals can prove it on the track also

Excuse me? Forgive me if I am misreading, but "Maybe I am too considerate" strikes me as very passive-aggressive and condescending. Please see my above response to Nick for a demonstration on how I am categorically NOT responsible for VOF's price. I haven't forced Gen to raise prices; for that matter, I haven't forced her to do anything! Calling me inconsiderate seems to solve no problems at all. Thanks for wishing me luck, though!

For any others in this thread - If you are going to blame me for stuff, you had better come with receipts. Thanks!

No, I was not passive-aggressive with my post. I was merely looking at myself as a player and how I play the game ^^''
Sorry if you interpreted it as passive-aggressive.

[Tim Matthews]

Nobody forces an owner to raise stud fees just because a stallion is popular. See Impacts. But it's smart of Gen, supply vs demand and that income should be a huge boost for future investments.

Perhaps I too am too considerate for this game, as I got 7 foals by VoF when he was at 25k, and then while chatting with Gen had her send me a lease to cover the difference so they would meet his 75k fee after it went up. Personally I would not breed my entire herd to the same stud either, but that's just out of a selfish desire for bloodline diversity and because I think it's fun to use different stallions. I don't think anyone in the game owes it to others to avoid using a stallion, when new slots can always be added if they fill up (and if the stud fee is set appropriately, that's affordable even for exchange users).

Shannon hits the nail on the head here. I'm surprised more people are not talking about Impacts, who is VOF's analog in TR. And I've only used him 40 times! The way Lucas is handling him will probably have some really weird effects on the division.


Additional note: I want to emphasize especially to new players that this is not a strategy I endorse. You need to be putting more research into your breedings and finding studs that fit your budget. Sending a bad mare to an expensive stallion will almost always result in a bad foal. I did this particular experiment because I am deeply established in the game and also because I was bored.

[Tim Matthews]

No, I was not passive-aggressive with my post. I was merely looking at myself as a player and how I play the game ^^''
Sorry if you interpreted it as passive-aggressive.

Okay. You are sorry that I interpreted it that way? I think I was pretty reasonable in my interpretation. You blamed me for "forcing" other players to pay "double and triple" what I paid. Hopefully I have shown that this is not the case.

[Kent Saunders]

First off, players have been breeding in excess of 100 a year (per single stud) ever since I have been playing the game. It is what it is..... secondly if the stud owner has an issue with it then cut off the available slots by reserving them and release a few at a time as do several stud owners today. Lastly I seem to remember a very prominent/well known owner got mad at the game or someone and took some really nice studs and reduced the price to I think it was $1000. The game ended up with about 5000 foals from 5 studs or some such number. BUT to Laura's point there was NO corresponding change in Freaks or stakes. Just absolute TONS of junk yearlings the following season and Em eventually created some rules limiting some of this type of action (mostly since removed).
My take on Hypo's is the real advantage at this point is the A+ Hypo from the stud under discussion. The other 300 that only Hypo A or less, your not getting anything you couldn't get from the other 15 or so studs that you could have gotten the same Hypo's for cheaper (except early on). Clearly we can all re-evalute after the first set of Gallops are in. I suspect VOF will be a top 5-10 stud in that regard but not a Multiple of the next couple. I start from scratch every single season before deciding mating's in a division.

[Andrew James]

What I’d like them to be are a rating on the actual pedigree cross you selected.

What they actually are is Mare Breeding Number + Stallion Breeding Number converted to a grade.

In my mind, if you hypo two full sisters to the same stallion they should give you the same Hypo grade, even if one is a blue hen and the other is an unpredictable.

This would be ideal.

[Ma Springs]

What I’d like them to be are a rating on the actual pedigree cross you selected.

What they actually are is Mare Breeding Number + Stallion Breeding Number converted to a grade.

In my mind, if you hypo two full sisters to the same stallion they should give you the same Hypo grade, even if one is a blue hen and the other is an unpredictable.

This would be ideal.

Agree very much, would love this exactly.