End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
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- Ma Springs
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End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
Soon end of year. I’m starting to think about when and how to end the careers of the so so horses. How do you go about it? Maybe this has been covered a thousand times..! Sorry! Please point me to the articles then! Or spend some quarantine time sharing your philosophy.
Start with the geldings. Do you GP them all end of year 5? Or do you go by results (how, out of the money three races in a row?)? Sprinters maybe are done at age 4, routers can be productive at 6?
If you happened to have a good non gelded horse (in the future, in my dreams ), what would be the mark for a good sire? More than a million earned? Good pedigree? Do you ever keep an almost good enough horse (under that million) or just GP or turn stable pony?
And the mares, this is really my main question… Which do you keep as brood mares and which once do you just send away without even giving it a shot? (And do you think newer players and “advanced” players should keep to roughly the same philosophy? I'm really aiming to keep my barn smaller in the future, not go for quantity, but the breeding is quite addictive..! ) I list a few “types” below, with a couple of example horses. What would you do with these?:
1. I have a few stakes/stakes winners (at Trial Park, that is) and I think they will go straight to the breeding barn when they are done at the tracks (even those without good dam side). Or do you always check with the brood mare agent (expensive I think, is it worth it?) or do you go by nick (B+ and up?) or just breed and hope for the best?
2. The so so allowance/productive dirt mares with or without that good pedigree? Give a shot or give away?
Footy Games
Storm Aftermath
Mary Eva
3. Unpredictable/good mares, do you ever keep them or do you loose them as soon as possible and only keep the blue hens and stars and maybe a well bred formidable? Here’s two pretty good runners, stakes winners, TS and TM, only produced claimers and different careers so far… Hypos B flat with the pretty boys. Try a couple more foals? Or sell (are there buyers?) or GP?
Touch the Moons
Dead baby
4. Turf milers, they still have my attention, hard to find good mares though… Is it reasonable to start out with a couple of solid gallopers just to get going, and switch them out if you find better mares?
Loses Her Keys
5. Maiden TS claimer with pretty nice pedigree, could you retire her as soon as possible and try out for breeding? I’ve seen maiden dams… Does it ever have a chance of working out? Or do you need to be a "quantity over quality player" to keep this one?
Horse 1580002137
Thanks for reading all the way here! Any comments are welcome! Be brutal. Getting rid of horses is not my strongest side.
Take care!
Ma
Start with the geldings. Do you GP them all end of year 5? Or do you go by results (how, out of the money three races in a row?)? Sprinters maybe are done at age 4, routers can be productive at 6?
If you happened to have a good non gelded horse (in the future, in my dreams ), what would be the mark for a good sire? More than a million earned? Good pedigree? Do you ever keep an almost good enough horse (under that million) or just GP or turn stable pony?
And the mares, this is really my main question… Which do you keep as brood mares and which once do you just send away without even giving it a shot? (And do you think newer players and “advanced” players should keep to roughly the same philosophy? I'm really aiming to keep my barn smaller in the future, not go for quantity, but the breeding is quite addictive..! ) I list a few “types” below, with a couple of example horses. What would you do with these?:
1. I have a few stakes/stakes winners (at Trial Park, that is) and I think they will go straight to the breeding barn when they are done at the tracks (even those without good dam side). Or do you always check with the brood mare agent (expensive I think, is it worth it?) or do you go by nick (B+ and up?) or just breed and hope for the best?
2. The so so allowance/productive dirt mares with or without that good pedigree? Give a shot or give away?
Footy Games
Storm Aftermath
Mary Eva
3. Unpredictable/good mares, do you ever keep them or do you loose them as soon as possible and only keep the blue hens and stars and maybe a well bred formidable? Here’s two pretty good runners, stakes winners, TS and TM, only produced claimers and different careers so far… Hypos B flat with the pretty boys. Try a couple more foals? Or sell (are there buyers?) or GP?
Touch the Moons
Dead baby
4. Turf milers, they still have my attention, hard to find good mares though… Is it reasonable to start out with a couple of solid gallopers just to get going, and switch them out if you find better mares?
Loses Her Keys
5. Maiden TS claimer with pretty nice pedigree, could you retire her as soon as possible and try out for breeding? I’ve seen maiden dams… Does it ever have a chance of working out? Or do you need to be a "quantity over quality player" to keep this one?
Horse 1580002137
Thanks for reading all the way here! Any comments are welcome! Be brutal. Getting rid of horses is not my strongest side.
Take care!
Ma
Nashville Stud
Elite Power | DS/DM/AWS/AWM/AWR | $40,000
Levels | TM | $12,000 with incentives
Kacchan | TM | $3,500
Elite Power | DS/DM/AWS/AWM/AWR | $40,000
Levels | TM | $12,000 with incentives
Kacchan | TM | $3,500
- Regina Moore
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Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
I just re-submitted a lengthy article that had timed out on things to consider about when to retire, so it should be posted soon.
Another article I strongly recommend is this one on breeding, by Cleo Patra.
A few quick thoughts:
With most of your questions, there aren't black-or-white answers. Some of us BSA every filly upon retirement. Some feel it isn't necessary, because they can get a good idea from how the mare nicks, some are more interested in the pedigree than the BSA comment, and some would like to BSA every mare but can't because it's too expensive.
Regardless of BSA comment, I cull mares that consistently produce lower level foals. However, this is not an exact science. I breed a mare to a stallion and get a claimer foal; the next year, I breed that same mare to that same stallion and get an allowance foal. That kind of diversity happens, which is why you can never know ahead of time exactly what you should do.
As with all things SIM, I go by division, in terms of if I'll automatically reject a "unpredictable" mare or not. I'm always okay with formidables, but if I happen to have tons of blue hens and stars, I'll mostly breed the latter, unless I have a formidables that are out-producing my higher level mares. (Which can happen, but you've got to give them a chance.) I always want to give formidables a chance (and in some cases, unpredictables), but if you breed everything in the name of giving it a chance, then you have too many foals.
I would never retire a horse based strictly on age. If they're running well, you may as well keep earning the purse money. After age 9, you have to pay some GP to keep them running at ten and then eleven.
Another article I strongly recommend is this one on breeding, by Cleo Patra.
A few quick thoughts:
With most of your questions, there aren't black-or-white answers. Some of us BSA every filly upon retirement. Some feel it isn't necessary, because they can get a good idea from how the mare nicks, some are more interested in the pedigree than the BSA comment, and some would like to BSA every mare but can't because it's too expensive.
Regardless of BSA comment, I cull mares that consistently produce lower level foals. However, this is not an exact science. I breed a mare to a stallion and get a claimer foal; the next year, I breed that same mare to that same stallion and get an allowance foal. That kind of diversity happens, which is why you can never know ahead of time exactly what you should do.
As with all things SIM, I go by division, in terms of if I'll automatically reject a "unpredictable" mare or not. I'm always okay with formidables, but if I happen to have tons of blue hens and stars, I'll mostly breed the latter, unless I have a formidables that are out-producing my higher level mares. (Which can happen, but you've got to give them a chance.) I always want to give formidables a chance (and in some cases, unpredictables), but if you breed everything in the name of giving it a chance, then you have too many foals.
I would never retire a horse based strictly on age. If they're running well, you may as well keep earning the purse money. After age 9, you have to pay some GP to keep them running at ten and then eleven.
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Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
I would run that maiden TS. Claimers and well all horses can change gallops. Also claimers can make money. Give the gal a name and toss her on the track. Bloodline wise I would breed her. You’ve got SYM and a stakes winner. Her bloodlines are pretty. I’d hypomate.
As for bloodstocking retirees go, I don’t do it. Mainly because I flat out can’t afford to. I’d rather go off of how they hypomate.
There is not set retirement age for any type. Some wanna keep running and some don’t.
As for bloodstocking retirees go, I don’t do it. Mainly because I flat out can’t afford to. I’d rather go off of how they hypomate.
There is not set retirement age for any type. Some wanna keep running and some don’t.
- Laura Smith
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Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
I apologize for not having the time to go through all of this in detail, but a couple things stood out to me:
-yes, run the maiden TS. Now that maiden specials are a flat $25k across the board, having horses to run in maiden races can actually be more lucrative than having horses that struggle to win their second race. Stick to the easiest fields you can find. Who knows, she might improve, and since she's from one of the most productive female families in turf sprinting, she's potentially worth a shot as a broodmare. For an underperformer with a pedigree like that, I would be looking at linebreeding to the strongest possible close ancestors if possible, to reinforce their presence in the pedigree.
As broodmares go: the TS that nicks a flat B to the top sires should probably be discarded. I'm not advocating making decisions solely on hypos -- I've been saying for far too long that we as a game community have gotten far too dependent on hypos to help us breed -- but a mare that can't even get a B+ to, say, SYM is probably not worth bothering with.
As for culling strategies, everyone is different. The Steward has said (a long time ago, and I'm definitely paraphrasing) that if a mare has been bred to quality stallions that are a good match for her and still hasn't thrown anything useful in, say, three foals... get rid. I definitely do this. I also get bored of some of them, or I'll have a year where I retire a buttload of formidables and some of them just don't interest me, that sort of thing.
"Good" and formid mares CAN still be useful. Most of us that have been breeding for awhile have examples of mares in these categories that have produced excellent horses. The broodmare comment is just one part of a multi-faceted analysis of a mare's potential... pedigree is more important... and sometimes nothing mares make great things, thanks to the random slide.
And you never know. You can have a useless mare throw a multiple G1 winner and never do anything useful again in her life. You can have a blueblooded champion that's an A+ to everything blue hen and her babies can't beat me on the track. That's part of the fun.
Also, to echo the others, there's no "right" age at which to retire horses -- every horse is different. Some sprinters peak at two. Two nine-year-olds have won the SC Turf Sprint. Just another thing to add to the puzzle.
-yes, run the maiden TS. Now that maiden specials are a flat $25k across the board, having horses to run in maiden races can actually be more lucrative than having horses that struggle to win their second race. Stick to the easiest fields you can find. Who knows, she might improve, and since she's from one of the most productive female families in turf sprinting, she's potentially worth a shot as a broodmare. For an underperformer with a pedigree like that, I would be looking at linebreeding to the strongest possible close ancestors if possible, to reinforce their presence in the pedigree.
As broodmares go: the TS that nicks a flat B to the top sires should probably be discarded. I'm not advocating making decisions solely on hypos -- I've been saying for far too long that we as a game community have gotten far too dependent on hypos to help us breed -- but a mare that can't even get a B+ to, say, SYM is probably not worth bothering with.
As for culling strategies, everyone is different. The Steward has said (a long time ago, and I'm definitely paraphrasing) that if a mare has been bred to quality stallions that are a good match for her and still hasn't thrown anything useful in, say, three foals... get rid. I definitely do this. I also get bored of some of them, or I'll have a year where I retire a buttload of formidables and some of them just don't interest me, that sort of thing.
"Good" and formid mares CAN still be useful. Most of us that have been breeding for awhile have examples of mares in these categories that have produced excellent horses. The broodmare comment is just one part of a multi-faceted analysis of a mare's potential... pedigree is more important... and sometimes nothing mares make great things, thanks to the random slide.
And you never know. You can have a useless mare throw a multiple G1 winner and never do anything useful again in her life. You can have a blueblooded champion that's an A+ to everything blue hen and her babies can't beat me on the track. That's part of the fun.
Also, to echo the others, there's no "right" age at which to retire horses -- every horse is different. Some sprinters peak at two. Two nine-year-olds have won the SC Turf Sprint. Just another thing to add to the puzzle.
LONG OVERDUE FARM: Keepin' it Canada since Year 16.
Stallions to meet your every need. As long as you need a turf sprinter.
Stallions to meet your every need. As long as you need a turf sprinter.
- Ma Springs
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- Joined: 4 years ago
Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
Ok, thank you all so much for commenting and bringing pieces to my puzzle! I appreciate it a lot, contemplating it all.
I find it amazing, although this beeing a game with so many numbers and tables, it's not the skill set of an accountant you need (maybe it helps too) but you rather should just take in the collective wizdom and hope it will add up to a genuine feel for it all with time. Isn't it a bit zen-like, no?
(And run the maidens, hypo mares some to get a feel, try a couple of foals, loose the really bad mares, read a couple of good articles, race til they loose interest. Taking notes, putting in wizdom bank, think I got it for now. )
I find it amazing, although this beeing a game with so many numbers and tables, it's not the skill set of an accountant you need (maybe it helps too) but you rather should just take in the collective wizdom and hope it will add up to a genuine feel for it all with time. Isn't it a bit zen-like, no?
(And run the maidens, hypo mares some to get a feel, try a couple of foals, loose the really bad mares, read a couple of good articles, race til they loose interest. Taking notes, putting in wizdom bank, think I got it for now. )
Nashville Stud
Elite Power | DS/DM/AWS/AWM/AWR | $40,000
Levels | TM | $12,000 with incentives
Kacchan | TM | $3,500
Elite Power | DS/DM/AWS/AWM/AWR | $40,000
Levels | TM | $12,000 with incentives
Kacchan | TM | $3,500
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Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
Hey Ma,Ma Springs wrote: ↑3 years ago Soon end of year. I’m starting to think about when and how to end the careers of the so so horses. How do you go about it? Maybe this has been covered a thousand times..! Sorry! Please point me to the articles then! Or spend some quarantine time sharing your philosophy.
And the mares, this is really my main question… Which do you keep as brood mares and which once do you just send away without even giving it a shot? (And do you think newer players and “advanced” players should keep to roughly the same philosophy? I'm really aiming to keep my barn smaller in the future, not go for quantity, but the breeding is quite addictive..! ) I list a few “types” below, with a couple of example horses. What would you do with these?:
1. I have a few stakes/stakes winners (at Trial Park, that is) and I think they will go straight to the breeding barn when they are done at the tracks (even those without good dam side). Or do you always check with the brood mare agent (expensive I think, is it worth it?) or do you go by nick (B+ and up?) or just breed and hope for the best?
4. Turf milers, they still have my attention, hard to find good mares though… Is it reasonable to start out with a couple of solid gallopers just to get going, and switch them out if you find better mares?
Ma
If you don't mind answering, how did things work out with you and your season of breeding? What did you end up doing with testing for breeding (nicking, BSAing, both?), did you find any turf miler mares and if you did where (AJ, retired own racers, deals with other players?), what happened with your stakes mares you were going to retire (did they work out as broodmares?). And, since I'm not sure where this was in the game timeline, have you done any gallops on the babies yet?
Gwen
--
my swap mares: https://tinyurl.com/35jk5aah
Regina Moore's new player articles (not mine) https://www.simhorseracing.com/featurer ... pleID=5100
my swap mares: https://tinyurl.com/35jk5aah
Regina Moore's new player articles (not mine) https://www.simhorseracing.com/featurer ... pleID=5100
- Ma Springs
- Grade 1 Winner
- Posts: 871
- Joined: 4 years ago
Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
Hi,Gwen Morse wrote: ↑3 years ago Hey Ma,
If you don't mind answering, how did things work out with you and your season of breeding? What did you end up doing with testing for breeding (nicking, BSAing, both?), did you find any turf miler mares and if you did where (AJ, retired own racers, deals with other players?), what happened with your stakes mares you were going to retire (did they work out as broodmares?). And, since I'm not sure where this was in the game timeline, have you done any gallops on the babies yet?
Gwen
Yes, I’ve galloped my first crop. Some nice things but a lot of things I’m not really proud of, but they go into my take away notes..!
I bred 50 (including 3 chasers I can’t jump until next year). 9 of those were allowances, all progressive or late bloomers, two from A- hypos the rest B+, out of a mix of mares; some leased, a couple of formidables I bought at auction, one I got from AJ and two mares I retired (one formidable and one not checked but with B+ hypo).
Among the claimers the most disappointing were a few star mares sent to better boys, I guess it’s easy to get your hopes up the more money you put into it! On the other hand, bad mares sent to cheap stallions are almost certainly going to turn out quite bad so I think I'd rather take my chances.
Out of the unpredictable and/or B hypos I got a lot of claimers and solids (and one productive). Not crazy about them!
Of the mares I retired I found only one star (not all checked though), so I guess my breeding barn isn’t the fanciest!
I haven’t bred my stakes mares yet. I will retire some of them this year and I think I will BMA check most of them.
This is my top earning mare so far, she got me my first big Trial Park win and I love her for that, but looking at the pedigree I’m affraid the BMA won’t be impressed, we’ll see:
https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1064320
This lady looks a little better in that regard, I hope I won’t be too disappointed:
https://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.ph ... ID=1139055
My goal for this year is to get better gallop %! If I can improve just a little bit every year and hopefully find a couple of better mares along the way, maybe one day this barn will produce a stakes winner too.
First move: I will study some pedigrees and the stud rankings AND stay away from the unpredictables and mares that haven't produced anything in a couple of tries. I know there have been stakes winners, even top stallions produced out of unpredictable mares, but the chances one of those superstars will pop up in my barn at this point I think are slim enough.
I’ll follow your BMA VS Hypo topic in the other forum section, interesting question, I hope you’ll get some insightful comments!
Nashville Stud
Elite Power | DS/DM/AWS/AWM/AWR | $40,000
Levels | TM | $12,000 with incentives
Kacchan | TM | $3,500
Elite Power | DS/DM/AWS/AWM/AWR | $40,000
Levels | TM | $12,000 with incentives
Kacchan | TM | $3,500
- The Harlequins
- Eclipse Champion
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Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
Among the claimers the most disappointing were a few star mares sent to better boys, I guess it’s easy to get your hopes up the more money you put into it! On the other hand, bad mares sent to cheap stallions are almost certainly going to turn out quite bad so I think I'd rather take my chances.
Same here Ma, the more i spent the lower the grade foal.
Agree have to keep pluging away at the higher end.
Think trotters will be my salvation next seasons racing.
Frank.
Same here Ma, the more i spent the lower the grade foal.
Agree have to keep pluging away at the higher end.
Think trotters will be my salvation next seasons racing.
Frank.
The closest a person ever comes to perfection is when he fills out a job application form.
- Ma Springs
- Grade 1 Winner
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Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
Oh how I wish I had a couple of your blue hens! On the other hand my trotters producing speed figures in the 90s can't even hit the board in a claim race so I don't know... I don't think I get along with trotters...or the other way around..!The Harlequins wrote: ↑3 years ago Same here Ma, the more i spent the lower the grade foal.
Agree have to keep pluging away at the higher end.
Think trotters will be my salvation next seasons racing.
Frank.
Nashville Stud
Elite Power | DS/DM/AWS/AWM/AWR | $40,000
Levels | TM | $12,000 with incentives
Kacchan | TM | $3,500
Elite Power | DS/DM/AWS/AWM/AWR | $40,000
Levels | TM | $12,000 with incentives
Kacchan | TM | $3,500
- The Harlequins
- Eclipse Champion
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Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
Its not stopped you being top of the tree on juniors.
Well played
Well played
The closest a person ever comes to perfection is when he fills out a job application form.
- Ma Springs
- Grade 1 Winner
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- Joined: 4 years ago
Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
No, thanks, you too! We'll see if we survive in the big world...!The Harlequins wrote: ↑3 years ago Its not stopped you being top of the tree on juniors.
Well played
Nashville Stud
Elite Power | DS/DM/AWS/AWM/AWR | $40,000
Levels | TM | $12,000 with incentives
Kacchan | TM | $3,500
Elite Power | DS/DM/AWS/AWM/AWR | $40,000
Levels | TM | $12,000 with incentives
Kacchan | TM | $3,500
- The Harlequins
- Eclipse Champion
- Posts: 1511
- Joined: 4 years ago
Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
I am a bit worried getting past the next season, i have stopped buying anything on the sales pages,need loads of dosh to buy elsewhere,
Cannot see me hitting a 5million profit .
Think i need my 5 kids and grandchildren to combine birthday ,fathers day and Xmas prezzies to buy game point on points and a half day end of September lol
Cannot see me hitting a 5million profit .
Think i need my 5 kids and grandchildren to combine birthday ,fathers day and Xmas prezzies to buy game point on points and a half day end of September lol
The closest a person ever comes to perfection is when he fills out a job application form.
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Re: End of careers questions – half bad brood mares, GP and so on…
Luckily (?) I didn't see that (claimers from the best crosses), but I did use a lot of Game Point sires last season and those slackers threw nothing but claimers .The Harlequins wrote: ↑3 years ago Among the claimers the most disappointing were a few star mares sent to better boys, I guess it’s easy to get your hopes up the more money you put into it! On the other hand, bad mares sent to cheap stallions are almost certainly going to turn out quite bad so I think I'd rather take my chances.
Same here Ma, the more i spent the lower the grade foal.
Also, I got late blooming and progressive allowance runners (which I consider good foals) off sires I paid 8-10k for. This season I've been spending a lot more on stallion fees and I have no idea how it will pan out.
edit: now I'm nervous that I'll pay more per breeding and end up with more claimers. My lease mares were really good to me last season, hopefully that continues.
--
my swap mares: https://tinyurl.com/35jk5aah
Regina Moore's new player articles (not mine) https://www.simhorseracing.com/featurer ... pleID=5100
my swap mares: https://tinyurl.com/35jk5aah
Regina Moore's new player articles (not mine) https://www.simhorseracing.com/featurer ... pleID=5100