The 2020 Virtual Derby

[Stormy Peak]

This is interesting.
Posting a few links...on it.

Kentucky Derby dot com

NBC sports

beach cherre port

The finish as I think it will happen:

Secretariat
Seattle Slew
Affirmed

I just can't see any other Triple Crown winner finishing in front of Secretariat.

And...I still think the 3 Triple Crown winners from the 1970's are far superior than any before or since. Also, Seattle Slew already showed he could out run Affirmed...so that's why I picked them in the order that I did, with Affirmed coming in 3rd.

Stormy

[Dan Kauffman]

No horse should beat Secretariat, but don’t sleep on American Pharoah to place or show.

[Dylan Christensen]

Disappointed Owl Let You Know won't be there.

[Nini Panini]

Secretariat/Count Fleet/Citation for me! Put American Pharoah or Slew underneath to round out the super!

[Stormy Peak]

Secretariat/Count Fleet/Citation for me! Put American Pharoah or Slew underneath to round out the super!

Unless he's just a sentimental pick I think there are a number of horses much better than Count Fleet.
Whirlaway won the Triple just 2 years prior....their Derby times

1941 Whirlaway 2:01:40
1943 Count Fleet 2:04:40

But even Whirlaway's Derby was faster than some of the modern runners:
2018 Justify 2:04:20
2015 American Pharoah 2:03.02
1977 Seattle Slew 2:02.20
1948 Citation 2:05.40
1946 Assault 2:06.60
1937 War Admiral 2:03.20
1935 Omaha 2:05.00
1930 Gallant Fox 2:07.60
1919 Sir Barton 2:09.80



Only Affirmed and Secretariat had faster times:

1978 Affirmed 2:01.20
1973 Secretariat 1:59.40

But, I still like The Slew over Affirmed, just because in a real race, Affirmed finished behind Seattle Slew.
And of course too, I know track conditions messes with the times...so it is possible if on super cuppy track, a better horse could have a slower time.

Also...on a side note... Alydar. There have been 13 horses since 1919, that have won the Triple.
Alydar was the Only horse ever, to finish 2nd in Derby, Preakness and Belmont. And, he did in a year that had a Triple Crown Winner, Affirmed.

And in all three races those two were alone close at the wire - in the Belmont, Affirmed won only by a nose! If history had been a bit different, without Affirmed - Alydar could have been a real possibility as Triple Crown winner. : )

Stormy

[Nini Panini]

Your point stands, and I respect it, but I don't share the same opinion. I think Count Fleet was a rockstar, and has been lost to time a bit, maybe. We'll never be able to compare 'modern' racing to the old guard, and that's why these conversations are so hard. Horses from different eras operated in different ways. But regardless, we're all just speaking in hypotheticals here. All in good fun!

[Nick Gilmore]

I agree Nini. Early horses basically ran over a ploughed field. We just don’t know what they could do on the lightning fast surfaces of today.

I totally agree with Stormy on Alydar though. .

[Stormy Peak]

Your point stands, and I respect it, but I don't share the same opinion. I think Count Fleet was a rockstar, and has been lost to time a bit, maybe. We'll never be able to compare 'modern' racing to the old guard, and that's why these conversations are so hard. Horses from different eras operated in different ways. But regardless, we're all just speaking in hypotheticals here. All in good fun!

This is why I wonder how this virtual Derby will work... because it will be hard to compare horses decades apart..and track times...due to stuff like track conditions, just the way the pack was running that day (a bunch of rabbits, or everyone just hanging out and not rushing for the lead...etc). Will the computer be programmed to look at 'popularity' of the horse too...even though that has nothing to do with it's talent?

I would think they would look at what other horses (not just in the Derby) that, that horse beat. And should it only be when they were 3 year olds....or should it's lifetime careers be figured in.

I mentioned sentimental reasons in my last post.... I never really cared for Affirmed, acknowledged his talent, but dang...he finished ahead of my beloved Alydar! So I know that plays into me putting him 3rd on my list, even though his Derby time was a hair better than Seattle Slews...and also that Slew was a 4 year old, when he beat Affirmed as a 3 year old. I can't remember though if Affirmed packed a little less weight though, as a 3 year old racing older horses in this race. Still, Slew bested him handily

The 1978 Marlboro Cup -- side note... at one point it was hoped Forego would be in this race, but I recall Forego was retired before this race was run, due to leg issues. In 1976 as a 6 year old horse (and packing 137 pounds !! ) Forego won this race. What a race the 1978 version would have been having 2 Triple Crown winner facing each other plus the mighty Forego there too. But still it was a good race...and also the first (and only time) a Triple Crown Winner raced against another one.

The Slew vs Affirmed

I love too, how they both opened a bunch of daylight between them and the rest of the field at the end.

And...Forego's effort 2 years earlier...packing all that weight and chasing down Derby contender (placed 2nd) Honest Pleasure who was only packing 119 pounds.

Watch how Forego seems to fade almost to the back of the pack...comes around the last turn wide and running down the middle of the pack, what a great heart that horse had. I Loved that horse! Actually cried when he passed away. I only did that for 4 race horses in my life. Secretariat, Alydar, Forego, and a little claimer I loved called Sephapianos Miss.
I can remember standing up, and Screaming for Forego to catch them....and even in tears and clapping my hands after the results came in. And again... 137 pounds... 6 years old...vs a 3 year old top horse carrying 119 pounds.

Forego 1976 Marlboro Cup

I know Forego has nothing to do with the Triple Crown virtual race in this topic, but can't help but think of him when thinking about all the great horses that have existed...Triple Crown winners or not.

Stormy

[Gwayne's World]

The SIM is enough virtual existence for me!

I want the real thing!

And will never be satisfied with less!

Man, do I miss baseball!

Just my opinion!

[T.D. Palm]

The SIM is enough virtual existence for me!

I want the real thing!

And will never be satisfied with less!

Man, do I miss baseball!

Just my opinion![b/]

My opinion also

[Louise Bayou]

I just bought my plane ticket to see Beholder...I mean go to the Derby! I'm only slightly kidding about what comes first.lol

[Gwayne's World]

I just bought my plane ticket to see Beholder...I mean go to the Derby! I'm only slightly kidding about what comes first.lol

I feel like our society has been forever changed and normal, now has a new definition?

If I let my true feelings about all this be known, I'd likely be ... (fill in the blank)

Hope it runs as scheduled Louise, and 100,000+ show up!

[Noel Collins]

I was hoping for Winning Colors to get on the list. Nope. I’d like to see a virtual race of the top all time fillies.

[Stormy Peak]

I was hoping for Winning Colors to get on the list. Nope. I’d like to see a virtual race of the top all time fillies.

The virtual race if for Triple Crown Winners, but it would be fun if they did like some races for All Derby winners, with the winners of each race going on to the final, 'all star Derby' -- I still think Secretariat would win.

As for the Derby fillies, that would be a fun, but short field. : )

Winning Colors (1988), Genuine Risk (1980) and Regret (1915)

I would take Genuine Risk for that race.
I think she was cheated out of her Preakness win by the action's of Codex's jockey.
Still, she finished 2nd, and in The Belmont, she also finished 2nd.

Here's a question for everyone:

If you could load the gate with 10 legendary horses you would want to see race against each other...who would you pick.
(Make it two races, if you wish to do an all filly field and an all male field) -- I will have to think about mine for a bit, as there were so many great horses - also - who do you think would win. : ) I'm leaving Secretariat out of it...as I don't think any horses so far in racing history could beat him, unless he had something wrong going on, as when Onion did so.

Stormy

[Stormy Peak]

My field of 10 would be a dirt route 1 1/4 mile... I would be hard pressed to say who would win, but I go with Forego, if he didn't have a ton of weight on his back, I think he could easily take it. The rest are not in an order of finish, again, I just would have a hard time saying, but I think it would make for a heck of a race : )

Forego
Cigar
John Henry
Alydar
Skip Away
A.P Indy
Lava Man
Whirlaway
Seattle Slew
Affirmed

The fillies same distance:

Lady's Secret -- for the win (or even a dead heat with Ruffian)
Ruffian
Winning Colors,
Genuine Risk,
Zenyatta
Susan's Girl
Go For Wand
Chris Evert
Azeri
Serena's Song

Stormy : )