Help with my mare

Ronda Figal · Post by **Ronda Figal** » 18 years ago

I have a mare Catinca(Storm Cat x Inca Legacy).. So far she has thrown a sw and a sp offspring of 2 to race..Her SW was by Walkover so i'm looking for a stallion on those lines....Any help would be appricated...

Emily Mitchell · Post by **Emily Mitchell** » 18 years ago

I'm not a pro at this by any means, and I'm sure Eric will find a better match- but I'll post my two cents worth anyway.

Both of her foals which have started are from stallions with Pike Place Dancer in their pedigrees- Walkover being her son and Worth Fighting For her grandson. And those foals were decently successful, so you may want to try another stallion with Pike Place Dancer in their blood. Tremendous would be one option as he is her son, and the foal would be 4x5x5 to Northern Dancer. But an even more appealing cross is Prefamageps. He is a grandson of Pike Place Dancer and he brings in two strands of Battle Cry who is similarly bred to Storm Cat. So the foal would be 2x3x4 to Storm Cat/Battle Cry. Also, Prefamageps female line contains My Flag, who obviously crosses well with Storm Cat/Battle Cry (note: Storm Flag Flying and Soldier Girl). Another plus is the 4x5 inbreeding to Hail to Reason.

There you have it, hope that helped maybe a little. B)

Ronda Figal · Post by **Ronda Figal** » 18 years ago

This helps a lot. Do yuo happin to know the stallion Pike Place Dancer is by??

Emily Mitchell · Post by **Emily Mitchell** » 18 years ago

Seattle Dancer, a half brother to Seattle Slew

Eric Nalbone · Post by **Eric Nalbone** » 18 years ago

I won't argue with Prefam as a great prospect; he's a true 1 1/4 horse who is (in my perhaps skewed opinion since I bred, owned, and raced him) beautifully bred and a fantastic cross.

Tremendous is also a good idea; I happen to prefer his son Impressive, who I also own, perhaps even over Prefamageps. The reasoning has more to do with who Catinca was as a runner; she was most effective in my opinion over 1 mile 1 1/8 miles, and I'm a big believer in matching stallions and dams, not trying to make them into something they're not. There's a little bit of an explanation to this below, but suffice it to say that while Impressive was a very capable horse over 1 1/4 miles (he won the Travers' Stakes), he was probably at his best in the last race of his 2yo year in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile, when he and Ground Zero staged one of the epic duels in SIM history. That was over 1 1/16, and I think it was ultimately his best distance. The pedigree tradeoffs between one well-bred grandson of Pike Place Dancer and another come mostly in the types of influence they'll contribute, and Prefamageps is STRAIGHT 1 1/4; anything shorter is too short and he's probably closer to Ara's ideal 1 1/2 horse than anything else I've bred. Impressive, on the other hand, is better suited to mares more capable over a mile, of which Catinca is one. Speed through Event Of The Year and Mr. Prospector (via Afleet) are the opposite of the stamina that's bred into Prefamageps through multiple crosses of Battle Cry, and I like the way that looks.

Other ideas include the good colt Lightininginabottle, who may or may not retire at the end of this year, I'm not sure, Tremendous himself, or a turf stallion, there's enough out there on Storm Cat and the potential turf crosses that I'm not going to go into it.

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The promised explanation of my breeding philosophy:

There are 2 ways to consider matching horses. The first is to breed horses to their "opposites" in a sense. This would mean breeding sprinters to long distance horses in an effort to put more speed in a distance horse and more stamina in the sprinter, or turf horses to dirt to create some sort of a multi-dimensional runner. Some people espouse this theory (some very prolific and successful trainers in the game have tried it with interesting results); I do not. I think that this is a waste of time, and all you'll do is produce a horse who, while mediocre at everything, is good at nothing. Why would you want a mediocre horse at all? I prefer to breed horses to compliments instead of opposites; that is to say that I'd like to breed turf horses to turf horses, dirt horses to dirt horses, sprinters to sprinters, milers to milers, distance horses to distance horses. There is some crossover in these realms (a miler such as Icon can often effectively infuse speed in, say, a Battle Cry mare), and different repetitions of pedigree nicks can manipulate the abilities of the offspring without the kind of clash I've described above. For example, two horses most talented over 1 1/8 miles but both with heavy Battle Cry influences, when crossed to each other, may give you a horse that's really begging to go long, EVEN if both parents were most adept at 1 1/8 miles. Breeding heavy doses of Silver Charm is going to give you horses with more and more raw speed over shorter and shorter distances unless you consciously and actively take measures to counteract this and preserve that speed over a distance (the difference between the way Saga is bred to go 1 1/4 while Icon is bred to go 1 mile while Era is bred to go maybe 2 or 3 steps over 7 furlongs before exploding).

The exception to this rule is soundness: breeding polar opposites in soundness is useful, advisable, and in some cases essential. Again, I'll use my mare Mirror as an example, her son Saga and daughter Loki Reflection were bred to dead-sound horses and it allows me a little leeway when racing them. A horse like Icon (by Priceless Forever) gave me nightmares every time I entered him. Anyway, thats my philosophy, its a personal preference, but I've just stuck with what I think works and its gotten me a pretty decent reputation for breeding decent horses, so make your own calls.

Mallory Claire · Post by **Mallory Claire** » 18 years ago

Ah, so you stole her from me. Haha. I had my eye on her for the second go around.

She is from the female family of Silver Buck, who, we all know, sired Silver Charm. I thought that was kind of cool. I liked Seattle Slew-line stallions for her. My reasoning was kind of a stretch and hard to explain, and I just woke up like ten minutes ago, so I'm not going all Nalbone on you. Haha.

If I were you, I would look for a stallion with Seattle Slew and Buckpasser. I guess anyone by A.P. Indy would work, his dam had Buckpasser, and you'd get some inbreeding to Secretariat. Mineshaft would be reeeeally pretty.

Post by **The Steward** » 18 years ago

Okay so I've decided that "Going All Nalbone" REALLY needs to become common language.

Eric Nalbone · Post by **Eric Nalbone** » 18 years ago

What exactly do you mean by that??

Daryl Dennis · Post by **Daryl Dennis** » 18 years ago

It is a way of dazzling your opposition through the written or spoken word. Notable sports anologies would include the way that Michael Jordan stuck out his tongue on the way up for a thunderous dunk, or Jorge Paez would wind up his right before he unleashed a punch. Other comparisons could be made to Jessica Alba bending over, or * Cheney turning-rifle first in your direction. All you know at that moment is, good bad or indifferent, something crazy is gonna happen.

For all the kiddos out there...your Mom may "Go All Nalbone" on you if you walk in after curfew.

Was I close?

-Daryl

Eric Nalbone · Post by **Eric Nalbone** » 18 years ago

Gee Daryl, I'm not sure whether to be pleased that you compare me to MJ or mortified that you compare me to * Cheney.

Writing at length isn't really a problem for me though, cause I type as fast as I think and I think quickly so I just wind up with a lot of stuff down. Yeah. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

Daryl Dennis · Post by **Daryl Dennis** » 18 years ago

Just so we are all clear on something, I did not compare Eric to Jessica Alba.

-Daryl

Eric Nalbone · Post by **Eric Nalbone** » 18 years ago

That is Jessica Alba. In all her glory. That is not me, to reinforce what Daryl said. That is Jessica Alba. In all her glory.

Ronda Figal · Post by **Ronda Figal** » 18 years ago

Thanks for ll the advice...My favories so far are Impressive and Mineshaft...I ahve to check out Mineshafts prefered distances and his breeidng fee and then ill go from there..LOL..maybee next year ill breed a baby to sell off her Mallory, and you can buy it.lol..I really was thinking of the Seattle Slew lines but had spaced on the Silver Charm cross...humm decisions...

Daryl Dennis · Post by **Daryl Dennis** » 18 years ago

I will reduce Mineshaft's fee if used with Catinca. I wanted Catinca myself for that exact cross, so I would be curious to see how it turns out.

-Daryl

Ronda Figal · Post by **Ronda Figal** » 18 years ago

Okay.. Give me an idea on aht the final figure would be then i can see what i can do....lol.. Mineshaft was also on my list so this baby was jsut meant to be...