Magical Illusion

[Mallory Claire]

Okay, I need help now. I don't know what to do with this mare. She's the very last one I have to breed (although I'm sure I'll retire some fillies before the year's end).
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Magical Illusion
m. Pulpit - Voodoo Lily, Baldski
Unraced

Racing Foals:
Conjure (f. Grand Reward) 2: 0-0-0 $0
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I've really done a crappy job with her, because I had it stuck in my head she could potentially throw turf for whatever reason, and so I picked studs that were sort of amphibious (possibly) between dirt and turf. Yeah, horrible word usage there, but you get the idea. That one filly tried both dirt and turf with no real difference - still stunk. She may need distance on the dirt, though. I dunno, more than likely, Grand Reward was just the wrong choice.

Voodoo Lily had a decent foal in Lily O' Gold, who became a nice broodmare, but she's by Slew O' Gold, and Magical Illusion comes from the Seattle Slew sire line already. I was thinking possibly using Impressive, since he has the Formal Gold blood that made Forthe Love o Gold, an $800,000-earner from Lily O' Gold.

Buuut...I wanted to see someone else's opinion. Anyone?

[Ara Davies]

I don't have any specific recommendations at the moment, but I would say that that mare definitely wants a dirt sire. I would start by looking at the sires of winning and 2nd and 3rd place two year olds this year. Weed out the ones who are just going to produce sprinters and look at what's left. You don't have a lot of SIM evidence for how she might produce so you want to pick a sire that does have a good production record so far, as well as one with a fairly low stud fee.

A lot of the newer players (lol not that YOU are new, obviously, but it's something I've been noticing a lot on the forum) are doing a great job looking for sires with pedigrees that should work well with their mares, but they're not doing the additional step of being sure the stallion in question is also a good producer. That was much more difficult to be sure of for the last two crops but for this crop you can look for indications of good sire ability but studying the winning and placing two year olds. Of course, the more money and good broodmares you have, the better you can afford to play around with unproven stallions, but when you don't really have any idea of where to go with your mare, proven stallions are best.

[LaDonna King]

my suggestion would be to breed her to a proven turf sprinter/miler.

[Mallory Claire]

Haha talk about opposite ends of the field. :rolleyes: Thanks, I'll poke around.

Eric, any thoughts? Haha.

[Ara Davies]

I've had some success with A.P. Indys on turf but that was when they had turf female lines. I've also had success with Indys on dirt; Trailblazer is the standout there but I also have two winning 2yos this year on dirt out of Indy mares.

There isn't a lot of evidence for how Pulpit is going to do in the SIM other than that he isn't a superstar sire. His best offspring are from the early early SIM and results from then don't necessarily correspond to how things are now. He has a colt who's been finishing 2nd and 3rd in a number of 3yo dirt stakes this year. Seer has a turf stakes win but is out of a turf mare. I just don't see a lot evidence to determine what it is the Pulpits want to do because he just doesn't have a standout horse.

On the female side, your mare's damsire Baldski could produce dirt and turf but two of his best offspring, Chaposa Springs and Appealing Skier were both dirt. Beautiful Pleasure and Mecke were two of Baldski's best foals out of his daughters and they were also dirt. Your mare's dam Voodoo Lily was dirt; her son Shah Jehan started on turf in Europe but then moved to the US dirt; her daughter Lily O'Gold was dirt.

While I do see some evidence that Magical Illusion might be able to produce a turf horse, I think she's more a dirt producing mare who might produce turf rather than a turf producing mare.

Don't use War Song as an example of an Indy line horse producing a turf runner because the family of Glorious Song has repeatedly shown an ability to throw turf runners from non-turf sires.

[Mallory Claire]

Thank you Ara, I value your analysis. I'm definitely leaning dirt with her.

[Sara Kendall]

Trailblazer would love to see her at the end of the year!

[LaDonna King]

i think i've officially lost it. when i first looked at that mare and came to the conclusion that she needed a turf stallion, i somehow saw that her dam side was seeking the gold....now that i look, i have NO clue where i got that idea.....i'm either crazy, or i looked at the wrong mare!!! hahahaa, i think i need a nap...

[Ara Davies]

LOL I've done that! I was confused when you said turf and made that whole reply just to convince myself that I was correct.

I still stand by the War Song statement, and actually I want to expand on it. When you look at the offspring of any particular sire to determine how good he is, throw out the results gotten from superstar broodmares bred to him. Broodmares like that can frequently produce good horses almost no matter who they're bred to so their offspring don't necessarily tell you anything about the worth of the sire. That doesn't mean ignore all the stakes winning mares; rather ignore mares who were Horses of the Year or who have produced mostly Horses of the Year and Champions, like Rain Dancer, Banner, and other mares along those lines. You can tell a lot more about a stallion's worth by looking at his offspring produced by mares who were multiple winners but not necessarily at the highest level.

[Carolyn Eaton]

I like to see if non-winning mares bred to the stud have produced winners.

[Eric Nalbone]

Haha talk about opposite ends of the field. :rolleyes: Thanks, I'll poke around.

Eric, any thoughts? Haha.

Coming soon, but football is clearly the most important thing happening on Sunday, so it'll have to wait until after the games!