A Stallion For Bluemamba

[Angela Dee Cochran]

For my mare Bluemamba (Kingmambo x Black Penny ( Private Account) ) , I am looking for stallions that throw turf above a mile but prefer 1 1/8 thru 1 1/2.

She has 4 offspring and has been crossed with:

Three of Crowns- produced Queen of Diamonds a very very nice filly thats 2 right now. Also some one by Storm Cat and one by a Storm Cat son-The first one there are no records for and the second is a yearling. Another with A.P. Indy, but that one didnt seem to show much.

I also looked at other Kingmambo mares to see what crosses looked good.

There is a Kingmambo mare crossed with Sinndar to make a VERY nice 2yr old out named Riyadh. So that cross is appealing.

Also the Kingmambo mare "Chalice Well" had several big offsprings and those crosses included four offspring by Commitisize( high winning all made near a million or well over a million each) One by The Scarlet Nite(which produced Niteinshiningarmor a 5yr old gelding still running)and two colts by Storm Cat himself.

Another Kingmambo mare crossed well with Cozzene to make Incandescent Star a nice 3yr old colt

Another Kingmambo mare went to Electrocutionist and has a nice 3yr old High Wattage.

So as far as I can see the best ones that have shown me are:
1.Storm Cat thru game points is an option.
2.Sinndar is an option
3. Commitisize and Three of Crowns are not avaliable. For Commitisize, the only one of his line standing as far as I know, (if I am wrong, help me here) is Dreams in Flames. For Three of Crowns there is A Crown Awaits and Duel of the Stars, Both very nice but at 30k and 50k that would be one I would have to be very sure about. :unsure:
4. Scarlet Nite is an option, but again here we are looking at 75k. :ph34r: worth it !YES! but can I spare that right now?....
5. Cozzene isnt avaliable but he has 2 RL stallions standing including Mizzen Mast
6. Electrocutionist is (as far as I know) not avaliable and has no breeding offspring so... (shrugs)


Now all of the high priced stallions I will definatally consider. I would be willing to make that much of an investment if I got some backing from seasoned trainers that it sounds like a good cross.

I would appreciate comments about stallions I suggested and if anyone wants to throw out another stallion idea. Thanks for reading and helping! I am still doing more research too...

[Sarah Chase]

Great research! As you can see, Storm Cat is prominent in the choices you came up with. I'd suggest going with Shamardal. He's a Giant's Causeway son who's doing well for himself, and with Bluemamba he'd make a foal that's 3x4 to Mr. Prospector. Moderate Mr. Prospector inbreeding looks nice so far. Shamardal is currently standing at $15k.

[Laura Ferguson]

Nice post - here's some things I thought of while reading it, for whatever it's worth:

Electrocutionist died of a heart attack; that's why he's not available. There's no other male-line source of Red Ransom blood currently in the SIM, although if you take a step back to Roberto, then Dynaformer, Action This Day, Rock Hard Ten, Barbaro and Brian's Time (I may be forgetting someone else, too) all come into play.

With respect to the Three of Crowns sons, if you're looking for 9 furlongs plus, I'd probably go with A Crown Awaits, as Duel of the Stars was more of a miler on the track (although that doesn't mean that he is incapable of siring a horse that can go farther). If Three of A Kind retires this year, he'd be another good source of Three of Crowns blood to consider, particularly at the distances you're interested in.

As for Commitisize, there are other sources of his blood, but they're primarily through Tulloch, who already brings in the Chalice Well/Kingmambo blood, and so the foal would be 2 x something to Kingmambo, which may be okay with some players, but isn't my particular preference.

Sinndar is a very interesting cross; as, in addition to the 2yo, there's a nice 3yo filly with that same cross (different Kingmambo mare) named Golden Ratio who just won a stakes at 9 furlongs on the turf. So, that cross is even more appealing.

The only trick with some of the sires named - like Shamardal, Mizzen Mast, etc., is that their offspring haven't had a chance to run longer distances, so you won't know how they'll do at 9 furlongs plus until next season. Shamardal won at up to 1 1/2 miles, so you'd think they would go farther than a mile, but right now that's just an educated guess. Mizzen Mast is a bit odd to figure out, as in real life, he did best on the dirt, winning a G1 at 7 furlongs and a G2 at 9 furlongs. Cozzene himself was a pure turf miler when racing.

Finally you can hardly argue against Storm Cat, but with him, you usually have a 50/50 shot - 50 being a turf sprinter, and 50 being a turf router. So, if you're willing to roll the dice and accept that you have a risk of getting a sprinter (more so than perhaps some of the other stallions named in your post), go for it. I just wasn't sure how important it was to you to get a foal that can get 9 furlongs plus.

Hope that helps!

Laura

[Angela Dee Cochran]

Thanks Sarah and Laura- this is giving me even more to look at and study.

Laura, Another player also suggested Rock Hard Ten and Action This Day, I was looking at their two year olds and they seem to be begging for longer distances on turf. That goes for Dynaformer as well. So that puts them pretty high on my list. Im ok with turf sprinters but for some reason I really like doing turf distances, I think part of it might be because I like your colt so much!


Still researching, more advice still appreciated!

[Emily Mitchell]

Another player also suggested Rock Hard Ten and Action This Day, I was looking at their two year olds and they seem to be begging for longer distances on turf.

I dunno... they are both Kris S stallions and Kris S has been a huge sprint influence in the game. See Fleet Afoot, Symboli Kris S with his speedy offspring (see Reassure) and Brass Hat (see Cheersforbrasshat).

[Angela Dee Cochran]

Yeah that is true. The only reason I was saying that about Rock Hard Ten is several of his ofspring going 1 mile with "gained ground easily" or was "strong late" even as 2year olds. For Rock Hard Ten, most prominate offspring doing this is- Bigger Is Better- Threeten Doitagain- and Ventura. But yeah, I see Action this day offspring seem to be holding a 6-7 furlongs a couple at a mile but not still gaining. Thanks for pointing that out to me!!

[LaDonna King]

my suggestions....either a crown awaits, faith justified, sadlers wells(or one of his sons)....

[Laura Ferguson]

I'm going to have to agree to disagree on the Kris S. analysis. So far, everything I'm seeing about sons of Kris S. (Arch, Action, Rock Hard Ten) in the new SIM, seem to suggest that they want longer. Sure, if they're precocious enough through their dam's side, or get a bit of sprint from mom, they're doing fine in sprints, but ultimately, they're going to want longer. As for Fleet Afoot, he's old SIM, so you have to take that with a grain of salt when planning new SIM breedings.

To me, if a route-bred horse is tiring sprinting, it means two things - stretch the horse out already, and possibly add equipment. I suppose it could mean the horse is simply a sprinter, but I think odds of improvement are better going the other way. I'll use a real life analogy. You'll see a lot of 21 second quarter miles in a 6 furlong race. In the Derby (twice as far), not so much, and when you do, you can pretty much bank on the horses that were on the front end of that 21 second quarter not being anywhere near the front at the end. A router isn't bred to keep up with a 21 second quarter, and when he tries, he's exerting energy that he isn't used to doing (using more heart and lung capacity in the process), and so he gets tired. Same deal if you're a runner. An eight minute mile pace for one mile isn't all that fast. An eight minute mile pace for an entire marathon (26.2 miles) is impressive.

[Susie Rydell]

If you like the Three of Crowns route, Three of a Kind will also be retiring @ the end of the year

[Eric Nalbone]

A Crown Awaits brings in the Storm Cat (Three Of Crowns) and is one of the more promising young turf sires in the game; it'd be hard to go wrong with him. Otherwise, I'd be leaning towards Sinndar or Storm Cat himself. Overthinking things is almost as dangerous as underthinking things, and clearly Three Of Crowns worked well with this mare, so there's no reason to try and reinvent the wheel this time around. You can't make money unless you spend money, and $30,000 is a bargain for a horse like A Crown Awaits.

[Nikki Everdeen]

I personally like Sinndar. I just purchased a very nice mare named Virginia Waters, who is by Kingmambo as well, to send to Sinndar this year. Kingmambo mares have crossed VERY well with Sinndar, producing Golden Ratio and my own homebred, Riyadh. I sent the dam of Riyadh back to Sinndar this year as well.

[Jonathan Bolt]

I have a son of Sadlers Wells, his name is Carival Dancer that is out of a full sister to Golden Attraction. The breeding would also give you inbreeding to Mr. Prospector (3x3). He stands for $5,000.

[Alysse Peverell]

I don't know how willing you are to experiment, but Mingun would produce some pretty inbreeding to Miesque and he has crossed successfully with a Mr. Prospector mare.