Pm's Not "not Allowed" For Newbies?

Ian Nicastrin · Post by **Ian Nicastrin** » 17 years ago

I would like to make a motion that new players do not have the option of toggling "not allowed" for personal messages for at least the first 6 weeks of their game play. These players usually don't bother to sign up on the forum... and it is beyond annoying to not have any means of contacting them when you are sitting their churning in you seat when you see their little 2 yo's being run in back to back weeks.

Teri Lawrence · Post by **Teri Lawrence** » 17 years ago

..and then a different newbie spam-harrasses them? Everyone has a right to privacy.

Ian Nicastrin · Post by **Ian Nicastrin** » 17 years ago

I still view this as a multiplayer game... the point of which is to foster social interaction between players... you aren't playing against the computer. I understand people have a right to privacy, but in most other online multiplayer games I play... you more have the option to mute/block/ignore messages from a specific player annoying/harassing you... rather then to just prevent anyone from contacting you.

What about there being a clause that says "We highly reccomend that new players toggle 'allow private messages' for the first few weeks of gameplay." when they are setting their account up?

Rayne Wyatt · Post by **Rayne Wyatt** » 17 years ago

Being a fairly new player myself, my take on this is still quite an outsiders one.

A couple of thoughts I had on the matter however, were:

- Have, as default, "messages allowed". Then allow the member to turn them off if they want to. I think that by the time players exlore enough to block messages, they will have explored enough to have learnt the basics.

- Personally, If I saw a message like that directed at me, as a new-person who is still learning the ropes, I would be a little upset/'squashed' by it - and yes, in my younger years it might well have been enough to push me out of a game if I was already struggling with it. I would rather be messaged privately, once, by an older [diplomatic] member explaining that what I'm doing might produce a bad result ultimately.

Maybe it is worth looking into such a member being appointed to act as a go between - all the older players who spot something like this could message the "watcher", who can then message the new player if they feel the need. Rather then hundreds of players spotting the same mistake and all taking it upon themselves to message the new player and potentially "scaring" the new player off.

Those are just my takes anyways.

Stormy Peak · Post by **Stormy Peak** » 17 years ago

Here's a solution that will solve the problem...

Just forbid newbies from owning any foals,yearlings,2,3,4 year old horses...and regulate them only to broken down old geldings for the first season and mandate that an older player babysit each entry so that the newbie doesn't dare put a maiden into a nw2 race or a near empty minor stakes race....also make it that they have no privacy what so ever and display their off-site e-mail address.
In between races have big really big pop-up messages flash on their stable screen telling them all the 'rules' of SIM. Then at the end of the season, each newbie has to write a report about how they will manage their 1 younger horse that they will be allowed to own for the upcoming season. If older players don't like the report then they can black-ball that newbie and send them packing at the worst - or - at the least make them run their old geldings for another year before being allowed to try again to own a younger horse.

Ok....all the above is tongue in cheek with a little...well...a lot...

I'm a new player and I know I'll get dumped on for speaking my mind...but I am getting sick and tired of some of the older players here just wanting to clump all of us new players into some kind of corner and force certain behaviors or messages on us due to the fact that a few new players are screwing up. I never cared one at all about being treated like I was dumb...which again, is what is basically being done here to all the new players.

I CHOSE to keep my mail box open, but if I wanted to keep more reclusive about this then I should be allowed to block messages too.

I don't think it's right to treat some players here as second class citizens in regards to being able to manage their stable or profiles any differently than anyone else.

The Steward recently made a post about attrition in this forum...perhaps new player stupidity should be added to that list of ways a horse can die here. Not the best thing for the horse and veru irritating to see happen...but to me more acceptable than assuming all newbies need to be treated in the ways some of you are suggesting.

Stormy

Emily Thompson · Post by **Emily Thompson** » 17 years ago

Stormy Peak wrote: Here's a solution that will solve the problem...

Just forbid newbies from owning any foals,yearlings,2,3,4 year old horses...and regulate them only to broken down old geldings for the first season and mandate that an older player babysit each entry so that the newbie doesn't dare put a maiden into a nw2 race or a near empty minor stakes race....also make it that they have no privacy what so ever and display their off-site e-mail address.
In between races have big really big pop-up messages flash on their stable screen telling them all the 'rules' of SIM. Then at the end of the season, each newbie has to write a report about how they will manage their 1 younger horse that they will be allowed to own for the upcoming season. If older players don't like the report then they can black-ball that newbie and send them packing at the worst - or - at the least make them run their old geldings for another year before being allowed to try again to own a younger horse.

Ok....all the above is tongue in cheek with a little...well...a lot...

HA.

That is awesome.

I still maintain that people are not, contrary to popular belief, totally stupid. They will learn by doing. If learning by doing equates to breaking down a horse? Then so be it.

I know that if all these "safety" measures were in place when I started playing (not that long ago), I would have quit then and there. I personally find it totally insulting that people feel every aspect of the game should be regulated for new players because...I still haven't figured out why, exactly.

Because people want to save every single horse? Sorry, can't really be done. Stuff happens, folks. Get over it, and move on. People will do what they do, regardless of whether or not you want them to.

:rolleyes:

Post by **The Steward** » 17 years ago

Easy, folks.

Yes, Stormy has a good point. A lot of new players ARE looked down on because the population, as a whole, has a knack for doing some pretty stupid things. Maybe 100 people post on this forum, but 450 other new players play the game and a lot don't know what they are doing.

Both sides of the situation make a lot of sense and deserve respect. Veterans ARE wary of new players because they HAVE seen new players ruin horses over and over and never make the connection. People don't read and don't care and don't get it, that's just people. If that’s what they want from the game, that’s what they’ll get.

Newbies SHOULDN'T be harassed or thought of as "stupid," however. Most of the time, they really just don't know what’s going on (see bit about not reading). The ones who are on the forum and participating are learning, and gaining the respect of everyone else.

The good news is that a feature is coming soon that should help veterans AND newbies manage their horses much better...

Tammy Fox · Post by **Tammy Fox** » 17 years ago

New Feature :ph34r:

Wee, I can't wait. When will it be added?

Mac Silver · Post by **Mac Silver** » 17 years ago

Very interesting read. This thread makes the quote "It's not the horses that are real, It's the emotions" a very accurate description of the game. That is also a big part of why it is so much fun!

S.C. Burns · Post by **S.C. Burns** » 17 years ago

I agree with Stormy, as always on this issue.

I know that a lot of older players will say that mandatory contacting of newbies is possibly a good thing, because all of our horses are in danger when a horse is put at risk for breaking down.

But, I'd like you to think about this: in the real world, horses are run too hard and break down, causing injuries to other runners.

It seems a little weak for players who generally acclaim the SIM for its realism, to then turn around and want to control a very realistic aspect of the game. I understand that it is a shame whenever any horse is put in harm's way needlessly, but for me, horse deaths, infertility and injury are a very exciting aspect to this game. For me, it is one of the truest challenges: to see how a player will overcome when their favorite horse can no longer do the job that it is used for: be it a broodmare dying, a champion stallion shooting blanks, or a very talented 3 year old being rendered lame.

But, in any case, I feel like this issue has been discussed to death, and it needs to stop. It is starting to make some older players (who will remain nameless) look really, truly pompous and condescending.

You don't want that, do you?

Ian Nicastrin · Post by **Ian Nicastrin** » 17 years ago

Stormy that was funny. Lol... at no point was i trying to say new players are 'dumb'... it is just very confusing to know what to do when you start, I messed up and didn't understand things like the alternate sim time scale... and I meant nothing more then a friendly pm suggesting they not run their 2 yo too hard. I actually wanted to offer some horses to some specific new players too, but I can't do that either because I can't PM them. I am curious about this new feature... prob something along the lines of tips that pop up.

Murray McNickle · Post by **Murray McNickle** » 17 years ago

how bout when a horse breaks down the owner gets some type of vet bill,
if the loss of the horse doesn't make you do any research maybe the loss of more money?

that was off top of my head and probably a bad idea

Mandy Saunders · Post by **Mandy Saunders** » 17 years ago

Murray McNickle wrote: how bout when a horse breaks down the owner gets some type of vet bill,
if the loss of the horse doesn't make you do any research maybe the loss of more money?

that was off top of my head and probably a bad idea

That's already in effect. All injuries get vet bills to go along with them.

John Slotmon · Post by **John Slotmon** » 17 years ago

22 weeks in the SIM and zero injuries and counting....

Biff Tannen · Post by **Biff Tannen** » 17 years ago

I'm a new player and I thought I'd chime in on this...

First, I too would have quit or at least have been very turned off if I got a PM from a veteran telling me how I should race my horses or what I should do with them regardless of whether its an acceptable practice or not.

Being that this is a game, albeit a very realistic and great game, I have to commend you guys for caring about your horses so much. However, as a newbie, I think I was more drawn to fact that there was a supportive community within the game. I know not all newbies read the forums, but I found the website and game much more attractive when I began to receieve help and encouragement from some of the veterans.

I also think that some of the veterans have lost touch with what's it like to be new. I started with $100k. I bought 2 horses for 25k each because I had no clue what I was doing yet. In fact, I sold one of them for $10k, which unless you have zero math skills, you can see that I lost $15k right off the bat. So what if I have to run my horse in a filler? Its listed and possibly even suggested on the SIMformation page! It does carry a warning, but it's mentioned on there.

I realise you guys care about the horses, but as in real life, good horses are overworked, over raced, injured, freakishly put down, and maybe even worse if you consider (or even know) what they do to them overseas. I think this actually adds to the realism of the game. If my horse was invincible and I could race it every week, and there was no game money involved, I don't think I would play this game past 2 weeks before I say to myself, "What's the point of this???"

Ultimately, whether you're new or not, we all make or have made mistakes in this game. When you tried blinkers on your horse, did you know whether it would make it comfortable or irritable? You tried it anyways. How about a tongue tie? How about lasiks? Heck, LASIKS are legal stimulants you can give your horse!!! How does that make you feel? How would you like it if somebody injected you with a stimulant that helps your lungs from bleeding because your running so hard? Unfortunately, some newbies will just learn the hardway. Maybe they will never learn at all. But either way, I don't think you guys can control it or should even try to control it. That's what makes the game fun. We can experiment. We can learn and when we finally get it right, that sense of accomplishment can be something that we remember for a long time. I know I will remember and cherish my first horse that breaks his/her maiden!

Give the newbies a chance. There's no harm in it. If we don't, then its no different than giving up on a 2yr old that eventually becomes a Stakes Winner at 4. Thanks so much -- Scott