Any non-AW studs out there?

[Madelene Gilbert]

Has anyone been experimenting with dual-surface sires and AW talent? I'm curious and on the lookout for those sires who might not be listed as "All-Weather" in the stud book, but have the capability to throw nice offspring for the surface. I'd like to make a collection of those names, so I don't forget them and can send a few mares their way. Any ideas, or good results? Particularly from newer sires?

For instance, Happy Racing seems to be able to throw AW. Although listed as Dirt Router, he certainly has the pedigree for dual-surface prospects. I only sent him two mares last year, but got Fireburst, a wings/great colt who's 3x3 to Minuit and worked 1:00.68 so far (still looking for 2nd equipment).

Has anyone else gotten results like this? And would be willing to share? All Star Sport, Smoulders and Goal Keeper come to mind but I haven't had much success with them yet.

EDIT: Someone mentioned in an earlier thread (Marzy maybe?) that Trafalgar liked dual turf/all-weather mares. I'll have to track down that thread and the offspring in particular...

[Nena Olson]

http://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=316330

Worked 1:00.89 on AW.
Sea Monster is the sire. May be an interesting sire to try with a turf x aw mare.

[Marzy Dotes]

Welcome to my world! 8)

I don't know if it's proper but I love experimenting anyway. I find it fun especially during a slow racing year. It's why I spend most of the time in my breeding barn, lol.

Anyway, I had one Trafalgar baby: This filly is out of Date who's by multi-surface (and chaser) sire Colorado and out of Consort (by multi-surface sire Conduit). Date's half sister by multi-surface sire End of Line is Abdication who crossed with Fang (AW/dirt) to produce Leah Clearwater (stakes placed on AW) (48.55, 1:00.64). and by West, Winged Monkey who though unsorted equipment wise worked 1:00.64. I'm not sure how that compares to the mean for five furlongs or the median for that matter. I found both to be pretty unreliable indicators of where AW works are b/c of the vast number of "experimental, just for the heck of it works" (and I do these myself) that skew those measurements downward.

Date's first filly was winged and worked 1:00.55. Date did have AW ability and broke her flat maiden on the AW. But I nicked Trafalgar with "stars" Sweet in the Sleet (by Hail, Sleet 'n Snow) and Deserves a Sundae (Deserves a Shot x CAM ( Sunday Silence X Secretariat) and got B+ for both. B for Mi Ciao Bella (by BTW). I do have my next Trafalgar mare picked out who's a "star" though primarily for turf though the maternal and paternal lines (Commendation X Baffert) do have some AW built into them. Just for fun.

It's not necessarily the best work for racing AW though it's hard to tell based just on works how a horse will race but I think it opens up the door for going for an AW runner down the line. I'm always looking for some turf lines. Naturally Trafalgar's stud fee is too high for an AW focus. I bred him to Date on a B+/A cross mostly for chasing b/c she was a stakes winner on the chase. Date might have had the AW ability to push that direction for her Trafalgar filly but it's the nicks with mares that are CAH AW fillies (unless HSS had another surface proclivity in him) or by dirt/AW background horses. The dam Devlish Lass is solely out of a Lucifer mare (as she's a product of one of the SB point mare leases) and she's been bred to Caterwaul who's a son of who else, Frayed who sired some AW winners most notably Venting. His dam Kismet sired some turf studs who occasionally show up in AW/turf pedigrees including Atlantis which I had one and Feature Attraction though Believe (by Magician) is the one that intrigues me though I'm not sure what's there if anything in reality.

Putting Trafalgar on the dam's side was interesting. I had this colt do 1:00.86 which is kind of eh. Especially since he's a colt. But since it's a wow colt there might be hope on the turf.

Outside of Trafalgar I have Sweet Incarnation who's Start Of The End X Acapulco mare. She ran better on AW and was second or third in a stakes for AW, won at both a mile and route. She had a colt by Tattered a few years ago who worked 1:00.85 on it and was third in one AW race. Her filly by West who's "winged" looks like some fun. Equipment vexed but so far 1:00.93 with one piece sorted. Maybe a four furlong work for her as well.

[Marzy Dotes]

Some other newer multi-surface studs. I think some are listed as all weather studs but until they're proven, the jury's out.


Happy Racing: Bred two to him, one winged, one HTT. The winged one is this filly by my "good" mare Endofthedynasty who's (Eastern Dynasty X Be Well (End of the Line)) Her best work so far at five furlongs AW is 1:00.81 but I'm throwing darts with equipment and this was from one piece. I think it'll drop quite a bit. My sense is that it's two pieces and that might be one of the right ones but who knows?

The HTT is out of a West X Colorado mare and the mare is "good"/"green light". She's also got a juvenile by Dumbledore that Madelene owns.

Goal Keeper: Threw three mares at him. Bronze Puck is out of Proud Eclair who's AW, having produced Michaela Quinn. This yearling worked 1:00.79 with one piece sorted. I think the second piece will drop that time down. He's one to watch I think. I'm not that convinced that Lofty Goals is really much all weather but his dam's offspring include Start Of The End, Life Divided and She's by Conduit and has Derby winners up the kazoo on the female side including her dam Soldier Girl. Interestingly enough, the dam of Bond James Bond was bred to another son Bragging Rights and I own the filly but she didn't like plastic much nor dirt for that matter either.

Del Mar Derby on the plus side, people obviously had huge hopes for him being all weather, I mean look at the mares in his first crop! Some very nice ones. Not much so far in the way of works but that doesn't doom him by any means. I sent a Magic mare to him that was "formidable" and I got:

This filly who's sorted and worked 1:00.48 and 1:25.98 already. That certainly indicates some talent somewhere. I picked the mare off of the AJ annual sale page not sure what I'd get but only $100.

Bluegrass Stakes: Didn't send this guy anything. But he's got some with nice works including this dude out of a Sunday Silence CAM. But the most impressive one so far looks like it's this half brother to D's Jury.


Smoulders: Haven't had much luck in AW, have one winged dirt filly who races this year. But a couple nice workers including my favorite Smouldering Stone.

Just to add, been playing around with Just Victory fillies. No, I didn't breed them for AW. I bred one for dirt when he was half the current fee to a mare that was Sunday Silence/Secretariat CAM and got a filly who worked 1:00.64 but got her two wins on dirt.

When she retired, I crossed her with Dr. Ghazi for this filly who's done 1:00.42 and might be sorted but too early to tell.

[Madelene Gilbert]

So my previously mentioned colt Fireburst might have his second piece figured out. Dropped from 1:00.68 to 1:00.21 tonight!

[Marzy Dotes]

Awesome! 8)

Alas, some of mine are still being very very naughty with their equipment!

[Nena Olson]

http://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=350162 Caterwaul x Magician Mare - worked 5f AW in 1:00.55

[Jennifer Francis]

i have no clue as to wether he will or not or even if he will produce anything but the derby cry might be a possibility for aw if he shows anything with the yearlings he'll have on the ground next year i will let u know

[Marzy Dotes]

http://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=350162 Caterwaul x Magician Mare - worked 5f AW in 1:00.55

I love Caterwaul! 8) But I love those Frayed boys.

[Marzy Dotes]

I did get a Happy Racing X West mare that was HTT and dropped to 1:00.58. So he's looking good for AW I think. 8)

[Marzy Dotes]

My Monster filly just did 1:26.03 for seven furlongs.

[Nena Olson]

I have a nice Smoulders colt, who I am hoping is Tri Surfaced *fingers crossed*

http://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=374632

[Kyasuriin Matsumoto]

I have been meaning to try Silent Stormer on all weather. He has two all weather winners right now: Silent Cee and Stealthy Agent. Not extremely impressive, but at a quick glance, it doesn't look like any other offspring but those two have been even tried on AW. So he could be an interesting addition to AW sprinting since it's lacking sires. His fee is set for dirt sprinting, so I'm certainly willing to offer fee discounts to anybody who wants to try him with AW mares.

[Marzy Dotes]

check this yearling's five furlong work of 1:00.13 for the Spartan/Astonishing mix.

I'd bookmarked him on my list of potential AW...closest thing I have to a spreadsheet but lost track of some of my list.

[Marzy Dotes]

Look at this fillyby Thunderous and out of a Throne mare. Five furlongs in 1:00.47 not bad for a winged filly.