Lasix

[Stormy Peak]

Laura F. in another post made a good point about lasix maybe not helping a horse that is lagging in the start of a race....it might be better to use it if you see that your horse is struggling at the end of a race.

Anyway... I've purchased and seen entered lot of horses that had lasix added even on their Very First race as a 2 year old. *insert huge question mark*
Why would a person put any equipment on a first time runner....doesn't that just blow a chance to see the horse's natural ability or lack of) and Then afterwards go in and tinker with their equipment changes?

I've also read so many here who have stated that once it's added to always use it...whether or not the horse needs it....as I guess once used they are addicted?

I actually with all my low-end horses that I bought found they were loaded up with a lot of equipment and for their first races with me, I stripped them down to one piece or nothing at all....just to see how they would run. I broke with advice about keeping the lasix on them in doing so.

I have one horse, Overflow who had run with lasix the race before I bought him and he finished 8th.
I raced him without any equipment for his first race with me and he finished 10th. Based upon what I read for that race...I decided to try a tongue tie and a F8 bridle but no lasix. He won that race without lasix, beating a full field of horses.

So I guess what I'm wondering is if the effects of lasix can wear off and a horse can run without it.

Also if a horse can run well without it why bother with it? I'm a newbie to this game but it seems to me that a lot of equipment gets put on horses real early before the horse can prove what it can do without the equipment.

Stormy

[Laura Ferguson]

The use of lasix is sort of a personal preference thing. Some players use it on all their horses, others don't. Some try to avoid it at all costs. Some players feel strongly about this topic (it has come up before), others don't care.

As for me personally, I'll use it when needed, but I usually try to see if something else will work first. My horses all run with a shadow roll and hind wraps, and that's mostly personal preference - I find that both can help, and have minimal negative side effects. I go back and forth as to whether I want to include a tongue tie as part of that standard package. The other stuff goes on only as needed.

Anyway, the description of lasix on the equipment page is the source for the statements you've read about lasix being addictive:

Possible negative effects: Tends to create a dependency on the drug, and horses racing without the drug after having been treated in previous races are more likely to “bleed.” So, a horse may be able to run without it, but you run the risk in future races of the horse bleeding.

In Overflow's case, I'm not sure whether the difference was the removal of lasix, or the drop in distance, or the drop in class (Trial Park races are usually, but not always, easier, than "open" company), or a combination of one or more of these things. In any event, congrats on experimenting and getting the win with him!

[LaDonna King]

i generally start all my 2 yr olds with no equipment. then after their first race i add equipment according to the running lines. i usually don't add lasix unless the running lines read something along the lines of "stopped" "dropped back quickly" or something to that extent. another occassion that i might add lasix is if i've tried everything else and the horse still isn't improving. i have added lasix before and it not helped so dropped it later. i don't think you have to continue using lasix in the future if they don't help the horse. i think lasix is only needed for horses that need lasix. i could be wrong, but thats my take on it.

[Kelse Mccann]

right from now im going to start my horses without lasix and see how they go, these are really good points and i need to stop being so dependent on it

[Steph Lonhro]

any first time runners I start will generally only have hind bandages, now if I bought a horse that had already been using lasix I might still race him on it, or eventually try and get him/her to not use it anymore in a few races in, my thinking is use as little equipment as possible then after a few races if their running lines suggest equipment add ons then look at that

but for each member it is different, and it is their choice and personal preference what to use on their horses

[Anna Leroux]

I usually don't say much but the only imput I have is this;

Baccie won her first race without lasix and a few races later I put it on to fix a problem... she placed 6th her worst place for me. I took it back off in her last race and she won. I guess it had adverse effects on her, but there have also been horses whom I put it on and they've done fine. So I agree it's usually a personal preference but I've noticed on a lot of horses once I take it off if they've been on it their performance seems to improve. Others not the case... maybe not a person's preference but I think it matters for each individual horse.

[Dave Shields]

I tend to try and use as little equipment as possible on all my horses. However, I don't have a problem adding things if running lines indicate a possible need or they are just not running well (sometimes its more about figuring out the right distance/surface).

Lasix is something I have taken away from horses, but only after a long rest before next outing - giving time to get it out of their system (my guess is 3-4 weeks, but could be wrong). Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

I am one of a few trainers who starts horses completely void of all equipment. It's the only way I can see if/when a horse needs something extra. There are exceptions of course, but even when I am familiar with the bloodline it doesn't necessarily mean the horse will need the same stuff as the parents or siblings.

I have several horses that do very well with little to no equipment, while others are loaded down or I am constantly trying different stuff trying to see if it helps.

I agree with you Stormy about equipment being used too early on horses, but then again that's just my training style (for the most part). I don't have a problem with others who load up their horses though, I just figure they may know what they are doing.

[Stormy Peak]

My feelings on lasix isn't good or bad. I also view it as a piece of equipment that can be beneficial when used on a horse when it needs it.

I've only been here a short time though and only have about a dozen horses...and I know there are people here running 100 horses or have run hundreds of horses in their time here...so I was just wondering if other's had experimented with taking the lasix off and seeing what happens for the next race or two. I also wondered with so many who say once on it, stay on it have just been successful doing this, or if they've had really bad results when taking a horse off of lasix.

I have, btw, purchased a few horses and not stripped all the stuff off of them...just a few things and ran them...as I saw in their past performaces it looked like the former owners were trying out the best things for that horse in the races based upon what that horse did in prior races.

Also...while we are on the subject of improving horses via use or no use of equipment available. I also have a question about pedigree types.

I have a horse that looks like his breeding screams for dirt...but he's done so terrible in the past on dirt, that when I got him I decided to run him on turf and he seems to be improving with each race.

Are there sometimes 'freaks' out there that just don't run to breeding type? Like a sprinter on dirt who's parents were both turf routers?

Stormy

[Laura Ferguson]

Stormy,

Which horse are you talking about? It'd make it easier for me to respond to your specific example

But in speaking generally, the answer to your question is no - two turf routers won't create a dirt sprinter, etc (or if they do, the foal is a really bad dirt sprinter, which doesn't fit your description of a "freak"). That said, what a horse's strengths are in the SIM don't always match up with real life. For example, Storm Cat is primarily, if not exclusively, a turf indicator. I highly doubt Bluegrass Cat would have finished second in the SIM's Kentucky Derby, for example. Similarly, Barbaro and Dynaformer have proven to sire primarily turf, rather than dirt. There are some horses that are versatile surface, but there aren't that many of them out there. So, I could see where someone looks at a horse and thinks it is primarily one surface, based on experience with those bloodlines in real life, when actually, based on how those bloodlines work in the SIM, the horse is actually better on the other surface. Hope that helps!

[Nikki Everdeen]

I start every one of my horses with Lasix. From real life experience, I've only known a FEW horses who weren't on Lasix in their career debut (this is horses I've worked personally with), and they were then put ON Lasix shortly thereafter. Most of the time the horses actually don't need it, but they're put on it anyway. I won't go into details about what I've seen, but there are ways to get horses on Lasix without them actually bleeding beforehand (in order to get on Lasix you have to prove to the state vet that your horse is a bleeder). And I'm a firm believer that Lasix can only help, not hurt, a horse in regards to bleeding. If the horse doesn't bleed, I don't think it does anything. If it does, then it will help.

[Brianna McKenzie]

Lasix won't "harm" your sim horse, so I see no problem with clicking that little box. Most tbreds DO bleed to some degree, so for their sakes, they should have all the help then need.

That being said, I don't like the stuff, so I avoid it as much as possible.