Why Fallen in Battle is worth the money...

[Chani Ruzzo]

I know many of you think he's priced too high, and I personally can't be bothered to lower him because 1) I believe he's better than the others and 2) He's a quadruple threat 3) The Steward has used him three times


Sprinters
Say It Once More (x Be He Me) - G3 Winner
Fallen Asleep (x Seraph) - Stakes Winner
Fallen Ice (x Synthetic Speed) - Stakes Winner

Milers
Lost Gold (x Answer the Dream) - G2 Winner
Generous General (x Hammer) - Stakes Winner

Routers
Dirt Road Phil (x Standout) - Stakes Winner
Fallen Behind (x Astonishing) - Stakes Winner
Falling Into Dark (x Amicable) - Stakes Winner
Stand In Battle (x Standout) - G3 Winner


Stewbreds
Remembered Soldier (x Dr. Richardson) - G1 Winner
Battlefront Love (x Yume Senshi) - G3 Winner

[Marzy Dotes]

First of all, I'm a fan of his personally as I am all Agronomist babies. You did a really great job to campaign an all around AW horse which I don't think is easy to do and not something that presents itself very often. A bit of a learning curve, not always easy.

This isn't going to be a two paragraph response for those reading. These are good questions and deserve a detailed and thoughtful responses so those who don't like lengthy exposition consider yourself warned.

I do really appreciate the deals that you gave on him recently and utilized them and him and look forward to seeing how the offspring do. I'm still admittedly trying to figure him out and since he's categorized (for good reason!) "any all weather" it's harder to do comparative analysis with stats with sprint vs sprint, miler vs miler and in my specialty, router vs router and I look at those things and having rankings makes it easier when I'm busy. His stats of 50% (winners) and 9% (stakes) but as a routing breeder I have to break those down into routing when making breeding decisions especially when considering a stud on the higher side of fees especially with the pensioning of Astonishing (who earned his stud fee in my opinion). Next closest is Dumbledore who's roughly 50% and 6.9 with mostly routers counted in though he's sired milers as well or routers that won mile races including Time Turner. Augmenting the half brother was a router and is classified at $20k which since he's unproven might be considered high by some folks.
We shall see but I personally am dabbling with him and wait and see. There's more and more choices than ever before so breeders can now enjoy better opportunities to pick and choose, to try them all or be more discriminatory without feeling that we're repeating the same few studs over and over. I think unlike some of the other AW specialties those days are behind us forever. I mean King of Consent, Treasure Strike, Time Turner, Perfect Sunday and some interesting point sires...Wheeeeeeeeee!

Dr. Ghazi? Dropped to $20k after Ghazi's Dream's retirement which I view as a good move from the self-interest standpoint as well as a strategic one. He's roughly 50%, lower stakes percentage again mostly routing stats. Both Dumbledore and Dr. Ghazi have SC winners, with Time Turner (juvenile) and Ghazi's Dream (two time marathon!!) .

Then you have the sire who kind of sets the market which is Yes, who's had at least nine new winners in his latest juvenile crop at mile and routes. At 15k, he's 60% and 5.5% again largely based on routers. He could boost his fee up a bit probably though
Ghazi's Dream was $25k but as much as I like him, I don't see that sticking unless he's super stud and with routers that takes a while to happen if that's the case. I see he's down close to $13k where I hope he stays for a while partly due to selfishness (okay a lot) but mostly due to the boost I think he'll receive from that.

Ditto Bond James Bond who I really like (even though his half sister by Bragging Rights was a dud) and who Gerry handled so well. I wasn't shy about giving my opinion on his higher fee. Again a lot of self-interest perhaps but a dose of thinking here's a nice stud who could succeed really well but if he's priced out of the lower AW routing market he'll wind up being a cheap source of dirt routing talent and he's got way too much potential in AW for that in my humble opinion. He's lower now and I think you'll see some good doses of niceness from his ahem, loins.

Fallen in Battle has versatility for the same reason his bloodlines might be a challenge. His parents were themselves non-specialists in the shed with one known parent. Not a bad thing though as a router breeder it's hard not to see Fallen in Battle as skewing more sprinter and miler (too early to suss his chasing sire ability). I think he's definitely got router siring potential but sometimes I'm not sure yet whether to send him longer routers to go for a shorter one, or whether if I send a shorter router I'll end up with a miler. The discounted fee led to me sending Desert Standout (as i like Dirt Road Phil) who's a nice routing Broodmare and I look forward to seeing how her foal develops.
The Steward sent him two mares including Jim Marries Pam who's produced milers including with Astonishing and In Loving Memory whose first work was at four furlongs rather than five even though that mare's produced quite a few routers including Bond James Bond on the dirt and AW. I'm keeping an eye on that one for sure!

These are some reasons why I haven't sent many mares to him at $35k. I'm only one person so it shouldn't matter anyway but I thought I'd give you some food for thought because I do really like him and hope he succeeds if not with me than with other folks. But pricing in the AW market including routing where there's so much more selection than the other two divisions put together where the next highest priced stud, including one like Dumbledore is $10k lower just might be a tough sell to some breeders especially those starting out who don't have a lot of cash to spend. That's going to be a HUGE market as races and prize money continue to grow. It might not be a bad idea to if you keep him at your fee to discount it during times like Illinois racing week so that newer breeders who might have a budget for a Yes or a Dr. Ghazi choose you instead.

I know Madelene's been more vocal about it and she has her own reasons but i know that they're well thought out reasons coming from her experience and success in all weather racing.

[Marzy Dotes]

just to add Augmenting was dropped from $35k to $20k and I really think that's going to boost his career. Yay!

[Chani Ruzzo]

Again, I'm not against Augumenting who focused on a router career. FIB's offspring earning has gone up from $11k to 17k and most likely will continue to rise. I'm not worried if people do/not use him, I'm just publicly announcing that his fee will not be lowered except for my once a sim year random flash sale.

[Marzy Dotes]

That's fair enough. I was just providing food for thought given the title of the thread. I do like him and look forward to seeing how well he does. I only corrected information on Augmenting as one of the four AW studs who've dropped their fees so far this year or last, not b/c he's Fallen Into Battle's half brother.

I might be wrong but to counter the dropped fees, the stud that raised his fees I think last season was Dumbledore but then the fee was lowered after that happened.

[Kyasuriin Matsumoto]

I'm going to throw Ominous Rumblings out there because he's often forgotten. He has 76% winners (top of the AW router chart, btw), but doesn't have enough stakes winners/big money earners to back that up. I constantly think I set his fee high at $15k right now, but maybe that's what is keeping the % high.

[Madelene Gilbert]

Lol, Marzy says I'm vocal. Have you been listening to our podcast?

I won't use FiB at $35k ever. Period. I honestly don't think he's better than other available studs; even if he is versatile at all distances, he ranks well below other sires in terms of winner % and average earnings. And since I very rarely get an AW runner to earn $35k, he's a poor choice if I'm looking to get a return from his offspring. I'm assuming you're leaving him at $35k for chaser possibilities and if that's the case then he certainly is competitive at the $35k price point. But for AW? Too rich for my blood.

Case in point:
1. Sprinters - FiB would be #12 in Winner % and #7 in Average $. Above him are sires No Fooling ($10k fee, 78% winners, $24.5k earning), Seraph ($35k fee, 77% winners, $44k earning), Now Look ($2.5k fee, 76% winners, $25k earning), Smile for Em ($15k fee, 75% winners, $27.8k earning), Theriot ($10k fee, 72% winners, $20k earning) and Frenchie ($5k fee, 68% winners, $22.7k earning)

2. Milers - FiB would be #13 in Winner % and #9 in Average $. Above him are sires Bad Traffic ($10k fee, 82% winners, $44.3k earning), Venting ($10k fee, 82% winners, $34k earning), Answer the Dream ($15k fee, 81% winners, $42.5k earning), International Team ($2.5k fee, 75% winners, $39.8k earning), Shutter Island ($10k fee, 73% winners, $20k earning), Start Sizzling ($15k fee, 65% winners, $40k earning), I Am Legend ($10k fee, 61% winners, $19k earning) and Painted Mural ($5k fee, 56% winners, $27.6k earning)

3. Routers - FiB would be around #8-10 in Winner % and #8 in Average $. Above him are sires Ominous Rumblings ($15k fee, 77% winners, $21.8k earning), Standout ($10k fee, 64% winners, $24.7k earning), Yes ($15k fee, 61% winners, $23.6k earning), West ($15k fee, 53% winners, $21k earning), Dumbledore ($25k fee, 51% winners, $22k earning) and Dr. Ghazi ($20k fee, 50% winners, $22.4k earning).

The only other sire listed above at the $30k+ price range is Seraph and he definitely deserves to be there. Dumbledore is the next priciest at $25k, but at least his average $ is closer to his fee and he's got several nice stakes winners to back him up. And it's not like FiB's the best 2nd crop sire either. Frenchie and Shutter Island were mentioned above, having better stats and much lower fees. Tabloid, Smoulders, Rabbitthrutheglass, Bond James Bond, Goal Keeper and Happy Racing are from the same group too and, with the exception of Smoulders (who's listed as a dirt router), all are priced at $20k or less.

If FiB were priced at even $25k, I'd probably use him. But I just don't think he's worth the hype and praise at $35k. No offense intended of course! Chani mentioned she wasn't in it for the money or worried if people use him or not. And that's perfectly fine and up to her.

[Chani Ruzzo]

I'm assuming you're leaving him at $35k for chaser possibilities and if that's the case then he certainly is competitive at the $35k price point.

Ding ding ding - I knew you'd know my true intentions Maddie

[Marzy Dotes]

Thanks for the clarification in your most recent post! I was a bit confused as to his stud fee being based on him being competitive as a chaser rather than as an all weather sire until that point. It makes more sense now.

It's the stallion owner's prerogative to set the stud fees as stated and I wish you the best of success with your horse!

[Madelene Gilbert]

I'm assuming you're leaving him at $35k for chaser possibilities and if that's the case then he certainly is competitive at the $35k price point.

Ding ding ding - I knew you'd know my true intentions Maddie

I sort of remember you saying you bought him because you thought he was a chaser, and then found out he was an all weather horse. But we are talking about the Queen of Chasers here, so it wasn't much of a stretch!

[Chani Ruzzo]

Fallen Asleep is now #2 in the Workout Rankings for a 3fl work on AW running 0:37.32
Fallen Convict is #28 on the Workout Rankings for a 4fl work on AW running 0:48.16
Remembered Soldier is #13 on the Workout Rankings for a 4fl work on AW running 0:48.04
Stand In Battle is #31 on the Workout Rankings for a 6fl work on AW running 1:12.15

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Just so you all know, Fibby's percentages are constantly going up with each race day, as well as his progeny earnings

[Kay O. Johnson]

I see Widdo gets no respect.....
52 % winners, 13,750 avg earnings and 5.3% Stakes winners
He is ranked 6th in % winners, ahead of Dumbledore, Dr Ghazi and Bond James Bond
He is ranked 5th in % Stakes winners ahead of Dr Ghazi, Standout ,West , Bond James Bond

[Carole Hanson]

Can I just say, Chani made this thread to promote Fallen In Battle, so why are other people crashing it with advertising their stallions If you want to promote your stallion, please do it in another thread, it is more convenient that way.

[Kay O. Johnson]

Because the post started out with "I know some of you think he is priced to high...." which naturally led to a discussion of stud rankings and stud fees. No one is crashing anything, just responding to Chanis opening remark.

[Carole Hanson]

Because the post started out with "I know some of you think he is priced to high...." which naturally led to a discussion of stud rankings and stud fees. No one is crashing anything, just responding to Chanis opening remark.

Sure it's an invite to discuss her stud, not to promote your own.