Selling A Few Fine Foals...

Gary Cooper · Post by **Gary Cooper** » 17 years ago

Two very fine foals for auction...need to sell to get cash reserves back up!Take a look and if you want throw down offers ! Thanks

<a href='http://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=43366' target='_blank'>It's Icy In Seattle</a>out of Black Light & Gambling Problem

<a href='http://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=43450' target='_blank'>Glance Up At Gold</a>out of Look Up & Gold Cents

Chuck Whittingham · Post by **Chuck Whittingham** » 17 years ago

What is The icy in Seattle colt going for coops

Gary Cooper · Post by **Gary Cooper** » 17 years ago

I was going to let someone start the bidding at a fair market value. Let it go for 24 hours...

Chuck Whittingham · Post by **Chuck Whittingham** » 17 years ago

Ill start the bidding at 10k

Stacy Sli · Post by **Stacy Sli** » 17 years ago

$10,000 on glance up at gold

Mike Prevost · Post by **Mike Prevost** » 17 years ago

$12,000 on glance up at gold

Rob Canterbury · Post by **Rob Canterbury** » 17 years ago

Gary just a word of advice..

You will notice that very few foals are auctioned, most trainers hold on to them until they are yearlings..

The reason being that if someone buys them they have to board them and will be paying daily rates for a long time until they get to racing age.. ( especially router types)

You will garner so much more attention and money if you wait until they are one. If you are really confident in their abilitities you can even have a reported work and then they can be really valuable.

If you are auctioning then it is important to set some rules..such as reserve price, starting bid, and end time. Technically this auction should be over based on your post. That's too bad because both foals should get much more money as they are well bred.

most people have full week auctions..(having an auction over the July 4th Holiday probably didn't get much attention either).

This is another reason that breeding as a newbie is a tough thing to do because you have to carry both broodmare and foals (board etc) without them contributing to the barn... You will notice that the number of foals go up significantly at the end of the sim year before foals are due.

I know you've only been in the game a couple of weeks so I thought you might like some heads up...

Gary Cooper · Post by **Gary Cooper** » 17 years ago

Thanks for the advice ! But I ask for an honest "fair market value" and I may be new...but not stupid.

Mallory Claire · Post by **Mallory Claire** » 17 years ago

Gary Cooper wrote: Thanks for the advice ! But I ask for an honest "fair market value" and I may be new...but not stupid.

Erm, if you mean the current bids aren't "fair market value," I don't think they're too far off. Like Rob said, it is VERY early in the year to be auctioning foals, for the reasons he outlined above. I wouldn't expect much demand for them at this point. Also, you have to evaluate the sires here and consider how much buzz their foals are going to generate; Black Light has been standing for several years without a ton of success, and Look Up was very recently retired and is unproven. Both stud fees are under $10,000. Neither dam has a winner, or even progeny earnings in excess of $10,000.

I think Em had a very good point somewhere on this board about 'buying to race' and 'buying to sell.' You should try to find it and read up. It's a good point.

Gary Cooper · Post by **Gary Cooper** » 17 years ago

one were sold...and at fair market value at that.

"Neither dam has a winner, or even progeny earnings in excess of $10,000."
With all due respect Mallory...if that were the case, three quaters of the horses on here would be sold for 10K and under, especially the ones that owners are asking 60K + just because what daddy did on the track. And Gold Cents only had two folds before and they are 1 & 2, the chance for earning power has not been there yet...but hey, 10K is better that a whole lot of 2yo out there ! The other dam only had three foal and her 3yo only ran 6 races total earning $4200.. still better than a whole lot of them out there ! Your theroy's on the Dams are way off base.

Oh yeah !! I will remember not to stud with any horse who's stud fee is under 10K...cause it wont produce a foal worthy of catching a price over that ! Thats laughable !

Laura Ferguson · Post by **Laura Ferguson** » 17 years ago

I looked at both horses, and perhaps the transaction hasn't gone through yet (private offer accepted), but I didn't see that either one has sold as of this writing.

Mall's point was not that a horse with a stud fee of under $10k couldn't sire a horse that sells for more than $10k, but part of the overall picture, in that the one sire has runners who haven't done all that much on the track, and the other sire is unproven. Another factor is you're taking more of a gamble buying a foal, and will have to bear more of the cost before you can start earning money back, so that foals, on average, will sell for less than yearlings, because you have to carry an extra year of expenses. These are all factors to be considered in determining how much you, as a buyer, are willing to pay for a horse.

At the end of the day, fair market value is whatever price a willing buyer and a willing seller can agree upon. When there is more disposable income flying around, and less horses on which to spend, prices will go up. So, if you got more than the $10k to $12k bid on the board on one of these foals, more power to you.

But, Mall is not "way off" on the points made in the thread. The very things she looks at are things I consider in terms of deciding how much I want to spend on a horse. Another factor, which she didn't mention, is that both are colts. I tend to, unless the colt has an absolute top of the line pedigree, pay less for a colt than a filly, because if the colt is not stakes caliber, my recovery of the purchase price is limited to what he can earn on the track, whereas a filly, even if she doesn't run well, may be a good producer. Some fillies I specifically am buying as future broodmares - anything they do on the track is simply gravy.

Gary Cooper · Post by **Gary Cooper** » 17 years ago

Hi Laura... It is not that I do not see the points that Mallory was trying to make... but you just helped me show my point. The Dam, may not be a winner on the track, but be used in the shed. I saw a horse the other day whos mommy was o-13 on the track, and whos grandma was 1-16..Daddys stud fee was $1500, and out of the 17 foals he helped sire, only one made over 20K. Because of who was selling that horse, it went for an outrageous price. I not saying the foals are Derby winners...but the lines are strong, not matter how anyone wants to twist it.

Rob Canterbury · Post by **Rob Canterbury** » 17 years ago

I think it is fairly simple.... whether you were offered more than they were worth or less it doesn't matter.. You offered an auction and received bids.. Without setting a reserve price you took the chance of not getting paid as much as you like...

as for the fair market value..what is fairmarket value to you might be very different from everyone else...

Gary we are just trying to give you some advice and thought about how this game works..you seem to have some real life knowledge about racing..That is wonderful..but in the sim you have only been here a few weeks.... When people like Mallory or Laura speak I listen as they KNOW the game.

I would sell the horses off at the prices offered and take it as a pained learning experience.. sometimes those are best!

Chuck Whittingham · Post by **Chuck Whittingham** » 17 years ago

As a buyer I felt like I wanted to take a chance at 10k for this colt. I have enough money to sustain his expense and like Laura said I would have not gone over 10k for a colt a filly would have been a different situation maybe!

Jolene Danner · Post by **Jolene Danner** » 17 years ago

I don't think that anyone is twisting anything here, except maybe you. People are offering you advice, specifically don't sell foals if you want a good price on them. If you want a certain amount for each then put a reserve. I don't really even look at foals on the sale page unless i'm sent to see one. I don't have any desire to buy one for the reasons that were already given to you. If you want to get the most money for your horse you need to interest the people with the money. And you aren't doing that here.

Personally I feel that there are a TON of overpriced horses on the sale page. I hardly ever go on there anymore because I have to wade through so much junk that is 20-40k overpriced it's not worth my time. I think that the 10 day rule is great, gets rid of the horses who are priced out of people's ranges, maybe helps the owners see the light.

I DO think that you were really rude to 3 very nice people who are only trying to help you get the most out of your homebreds. While most newbies are happy to learn something from people with lots of experience and success in the SIM you just seem to get offended when offered advice, especially if it's not what you seem to want to hear. Now i'm all for trying new things in the SIM and seeing if they work, I think that it's easier to trailblaze once you've established yourself well.