When To Retire

Scott Eiland · Post by **Scott Eiland** » 17 years ago

I was just sitting here looking busy and thought of a very GOOD question to be answered by all you expert breeders out there.

"When is it the right time to retire your filly to make foals?"

Here is a situation to consider:

- Let's say you have a fairly well-bred filly who's mediocre on the track..that is to say, someone who's broken her maiden but struggled in allowance races in her third year. After three askings after a maiden win, she's struggling to hit the board or even bring home a check and you find yourself searching the globe for a soft field, just BEGGING for a couple wins to boost her resume.. and she's at the end of her three year old year.

Are there situations where a struggling three year old filly will have a marked improvement in year four? How about year four to year five?

What I am really asking is do fillies sometimes have mediocre starts to their career that span up to two seasons then finally find their stride at age four? What signs, if any, should I look for to determine if a filly is a good candidate to be a late bloomer?

Sarah Chase · Post by **Sarah Chase** » 17 years ago

I think breeding is the key determinant here. If she's not bred to be a star, she might be able to get an allowance win later in life but I personally wouldn't consider it worth it to keep racing her.

Nikki Everdeen · Post by **Nikki Everdeen** » 17 years ago

For me, it seems like a lot of sprinting fillies (at least mine do) flatten out once they become four-year-olds. A prime example of that is Impressionist, although it's probably because she was simply overclassed once she got her second win. The same can probably be said for How Bizarre, although her wins almost look like flukes when compared to almost every other one of her races. And I should also mention my 5yo mare Perfect Champion, who really has tailed off this year, while still being slightly competitive.

My routers mainly seem to be handling the age issue fine. Bajan (4yo), Burn the Land (4yo, semi-sprinter who goes 7 1/2), Careless Whisper (4yo), Cautiontothewind (4yo), Fight the Laughter (4yo), Loki Billion (4yo), Pure Beauty (4yo), and Ravenna (4yo) have all done fairly well this year for me.

Jolene Danner · Post by **Jolene Danner** » 17 years ago

I have a 4yo filly, Barbaro's Star, who seems to be on the upswing. She started off slowly and just won a stakes last out against boys. I haven't decided if she's going to stay in training at 5 yet or not. We'll see how the rest of her season goes.

Laura Ferguson · Post by **Laura Ferguson** » 17 years ago

I can't speak to sprint fillies, but horses with Worth Fighting For, Battle Cry, Tremendous (check out Tremendous Machine for a horse that screamed, I wanna be a 4 and 5yo), Gaze Unwavering, Chinese Bandit, etc., in their bloodlines tend to want to mature later and get better at three, four, and older. On turf, Atlas' seem to get better with age, and I suspect Black Condor will be the same.In all of these cases, you have parents who might have done well younger, but carried on or even improved as they got older, and their new SIM offspring are showing similar traits. Probably one of the best things you can do is look at your filly's new SIM siblings and other new SIM horses sired by her sire.

In your case, I'm assuming you are talking about Forgotten Dreams. Neither side of her pedigree precisely speaks late bloomer to me. But, what I see in her race record since her maiden win is - an off race, a loooooooong layoff between races (and one workout isn't going to keep a horse fit enough when it is a nine week break), and for the last two - welcome to the lion's den known as the 3yo sprint filly division and give everyone a head start by dawdling out of the gate. I'd toss out the previous poor outing with blinkers, and keep the lasix, which it appears is exactly what you look like you are going to do with her. Cutting back probably isn't a bad idea either, as is finding the easiest condition possible for her (that said, it doesn't guarantee that a monster in the making won't show up, but that helps to minimize it).

This may be as good as it gets, but I'd tinker around with the equipment a little more, and if this race doesn't work, I'd actually try a 7 furlong race next, just to see if that shakes anything up (as Seeking the Gold suggests longer sprint to me, at least in this combination). On the other hand, if it works, stick with the equipment and distance that seemed to do the trick. Hope that helps!

Ronda Figal · Post by **Ronda Figal** » 17 years ago

i have a few that race after their 4yr season but very few. and unless they are competing i'd rather have them in the brood band and work on breeding nicks as they can take quite a bit of time to figure out.However i have had success with some 4+ fillies that have gone from struggling on the flat to really taking to the jumps,one of my maiden winners on the flat that coulden't compete in alw is now a stakes winner over the jumps..

Friedrich Barbarossa · Post by **Friedrich Barbarossa** » 17 years ago

I've been starting to think about this issue myself, albeit in a different situation regarding a few mares I've recently created.

**--And Scott please allow me to profusely apologize for a potential thread diversion here. You can give me a smackdown via chat tonight, I probably deserve it.--**

I have a few CAH mares by Fields of Green that I set at age 4 when I created them, thinking I need some broodmares that I'll race a few times and then retire. I'm wavering on that now, bigtime. From the article on the CAHs:

"Fields of Green did not race as a two year old, but began his career at the end of his three year old season. He ended up being undefeated at distances over 1 1/4 miles, excelling at 1 1/2 miles. He raced until he was a six year old."

Obviously this is going to be trial and error but at this point I think most of my Fields of Green CAH mares will race through their 5yo season, and all of the above has little if anything to do with your situation most likely. :ph34r:

Gary Cooper · Post by **Gary Cooper** » 17 years ago

As some of you know I have been doing a lot of looking into as far as sprint fillies go and chasers. So far I have been using many of the non-winning fillies from the flats to the chase with better than avg. results so far. It also seems that the dirt fillies do better than the turfers and that my fillies in general seem to do better than the males. I am no expert on this of course, but I am putting much time and thought into it. I also made a CAH Jumper at three to see how she would do on long distance turf flat races before she turns four... she will soon have a second race. Of course I am making her competition tough to see what a good value they are as far as future buys before 4 years of age.

Anna Leroux · Post by **Anna Leroux** » 17 years ago

<a href='http://www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=17219' target='_blank'>Baccie</a> ; prime example of an older horse. Look at her early record at 2 and then her improvement in late three year old year into four and five. She's six and going strong. I hate to retire her until she says no more by finishing in the back of the field or by just having bad running lines.

Dave Shields · Post by **Dave Shields** » 17 years ago

I like to keep my ladies running into the 4yo season for the most part. Sure some fall flat and some slowly dwindle, but others come into their own. Like others have said, the routers will usually be nicest at 3,4 and even 5. It is pretty rare for the lady sprinters to stick around much later than the 4yo season, but the top ladies seem to hold out well at 4yo.

For my stable, if a sprinter isn't doing well at age 3 (not entirely her fault) and I have plans to hang onto to her for breeding I will go ahead and retire at the end of the 3yo season. For the rest I will continue with them into the 4yo season. I can't think of any 5yo mares running in my group, but that has more to do with my impatience for bringing up the next generation.

One thing to remember is that the 4yo filly group is usually thinner than the 3yos, so sometimes a horse's career can improve just by the sheer number of ladies running is less. That may not be so much the case as the SIM gets bigger and bigger, but some trainers pull their ladies at the end of their 3yo season and get them to shed in lieu of continuing their reign of terror on the track.