Hall of Fame Y43

[Dan Gordon]

Well, I'm miffed that Dr. Ghazi didn't even make the ballot after I made a compelling case - excelling on both Dirt and AW.

I'm miffed, I tell you. I"m also flumoxxed, chagrined, irked and have my undies in a bundle!

[Friedrich Barbarossa]

I'm super late to this party, but has anybody discussed the absurdity of a vote that will induct the same number of pacer males into the HOF as thoroughbreds? Wouldn't that be like including a special bat boy category on the same baseball HOF ballot as, say, Derek Jeter?

Everyone should get participation trophies, dude.

Next up: pensioner hall of fame.

[Nick Gilmore]

IF aw gets it's own recognition (and I'm not saying it doesn't deserve it), the turf wants equal billing.....just sayin

[The Steward]

IF aw gets it's own recognition (and I'm not saying it doesn't deserve it), the turf wants equal billing.....just sayin

And this is why AW is not separated out. If AW is, why not Turf? And if AW, Turf, and Dirt all get their own, why not sprinter, router, mid?

[Madelene Gilbert]

IF aw gets it's own recognition (and I'm not saying it doesn't deserve it), the turf wants equal billing.....just sayin

And this is why AW is not separated out. If AW is, why not Turf? And if AW, Turf, and Dirt all get their own, why not sprinter, router, mid?

And that's exactly why I knew it would never happen. Pandora's Box and all. Still frustrating for us, but I understand.

[The Steward]

IF aw gets it's own recognition (and I'm not saying it doesn't deserve it), the turf wants equal billing.....just sayin

And this is why AW is not separated out. If AW is, why not Turf? And if AW, Turf, and Dirt all get their own, why not sprinter, router, mid?

And that's exactly why I knew it would never happen. Pandora's Box and all. Still frustrating for us, but I understand.

I get it, too - and I could have added a million more TBs but we all know Maelstrom is the one getting in (he currently leads by 40 votes) so I didn't try too hard!

I actually heard a crazy idea that I loved the other day (you know who you are!) No work for me or a committee, just every year, EVERY horse who has been retired 10 years, won say more than 3 G1s, and more than $x depending on breed, is up for vote. All of them. Could be hundreds of horses. And every year, whoever the top vote getters are get in. A fully automated system. I KINDA LOVED IT!

[Madelene Gilbert]

just every year, EVERY horse who has been retired 10 years, won say more than 3 G1s, and more than $x depending on breed, is up for vote.

And that right there disqualifies 99% of early AW horses.

Oh well, can't win them all!

[The Steward]

just every year, EVERY horse who has been retired 10 years, won say more than 3 G1s, and more than $x depending on breed, is up for vote.

And that right there disqualifies 99% of early AW horses.

Oh well, can't win them all!

I was just making up stats while I typed, but you get the idea (or at least were supposed to).

[Chris Everett]

Out of the names there for male TB.... the oldest is 29 sim years. And yet Right Hand Man is ignored because omg he's not dirt route! GASP RHM is a turf sprinter. Ease, another turf sprinter. Seraph a AW sprinter. 29, 26 and 21. That is their ages. The 3 oldest are sprinters. Then you have SSS a turf miler who's a year older. I think because of what Mael did and because of his progeny, it should have been a automatic in. Shouldn't have even put him there. Would have forced people to vote on a yucky turf or aw sprinter or a dirt sprinter or turf miler. So basically the vote was already biased. So it amusing to me.

[Madelene Gilbert]

just every year, EVERY horse who has been retired 10 years, won say more than 3 G1s, and more than $x depending on breed, is up for vote.

And that right there disqualifies 99% of early AW horses.

Oh well, can't win them all!

I was just making up stats while I typed, but you get the idea (or at least were supposed to).

I did, but any automatic system meant to filter the best of the best for turf/dirt is going to leave AW out regardless. And probably early chasers too. Unless you code in special circumstances like for mixers. But then, again, you open it up to criticism for "why not separate turf/dirt" then separate sprint/mile/route.

I'm used to AW getting the short stick by now, it's ok.

[Matt Feldman]

Whenever I see the all fun HOF debates, I always thing of the Baseball Hall of Fame, with all its drama and issues. And the solution to the fact that dirt routers get all the glory and Hall of Fame votes: a SIM version of Baseballs' Veterans Committee (which has a new name now, but whatever).

In baseball, every 3 years, a committee looks at all the overlooked players, as well as other people important to the game like owners, scouts, umpires, the media, etc, and has its own election for its nominations. In the SIM version, either the Steward, or a committee, or just the whole SIM, nominates overlooked horses or horses that made a special contributions in their own categories, so that AW or Turf Sprinters that are truly standouts in their categories at least get considered. This will be followed by a lot of arguing, complaining, locked threads, and maybe even people threatening to quit the SIM over something that means nothing to many people, but that's where the fun is!

[Carole Hanson]

I sort of agree about Maelstrom. A horse who won the Triple Crown should just be an automated entry into the HOF in my opinion. Don't need to vote on that one.

[John Slotmon]

July can't even get on the dang ballot. Arc-SC winner, only lost once (To a HOF member) and some trotter is going to make the HOF instead. Silver Screen Star by all accounts is the greatest turf miler in the new SIM, and he's (at least) 40 votes short of HOF induction. And don't even get me started on Right Hand Man. That is just negligence.

Maelstrom should totally be in the HOF. Couldn't be more worthy. But limiting TB entrants per vote to one is causing a serious bottleneck on the thoroughbred side. The baseball HOF 75% rule isn't perfect, but I would support allowing folks to vote for multiple horses in a category (say, three) and those receiving over a certain threshold receive admission. I doubt the coding would be at complicated.

In conclusion, it is preposterous that the same number of TBs and flipping Arabians are getting into the HOF. The end.

[Tim Matthews]

I mostly agree with John, and this thread also got me looking at the actual Hall of Fame, which I would love to be able to separate by breed.

One of the problems is that horses are just way better now than they used to be. A lot of fillies like See Around Corners and Madeline Smith would destroy many of the ladies currently in the Hall (and will likely prove to be even better producers) but probably won't ever even sniff the ballot. So it's hard to judge a horse's accomplishments, especially from a long time ago.

Does Babe Ruth need to be in the Hall of Fame? Change the Stars? Lost Ecstasy? Colors Bright? Is Wanting Enough probably shouldn't be in the hall. Chica Cash, a quarter horse who won almost exclusively sponsored G1s yet ammassed less than $500k and produced exactly zero stakes winners, DEFINITELY shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. (No offense intended toward any of the owners of these horses, of course.)

There are so many "deserving" candidates for the HoF (especially thoroughbreds), and as of now it feels like they've been picked pretty arbitrarily. I don't really care, but I definitely sympathize with the frustrations in this thread. My goal is just to be in the Hall by Year 100. #TimmyJHallofFame

[John Slotmon]

I mostly agree with John, and this thread also got me looking at the actual Hall of Fame, which I would love to be able to separate by breed.

One of the problems is that horses are just way better now than they used to be. A lot of fillies like See Around Corners and Madeline Smith would destroy many of the ladies currently in the Hall (and will likely prove to be even better producers) but probably won't ever even sniff the ballot. So it's hard to judge a horse's accomplishments, especially from a long time ago.

Does Babe Ruth need to be in the Hall of Fame? Change the Stars? Lost Ecstasy? Colors Bright? Is Wanting Enough probably shouldn't be in the hall. Chica Cash, a quarter horse who won almost exclusively sponsored G1s yet ammassed less than $500k and produced exactly zero stakes winners, DEFINITELY shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. (No offense intended toward any of the owners of these horses, of course.)

There are so many "deserving" candidates for the HoF (especially thoroughbreds), and as of now it feels like they've been picked pretty arbitrarily. I don't really care, but I definitely sympathize with the frustrations in this thread. My goal is just to be in the Hall by Year 100. #TimmyJHallofFame

To Tim's point, one of the biggest problems is the Battle Crys of the world - that is, the massive proportion of old SIM horses in the HOF. Like six people played back then, yet seemingly any horse who won a stake in those days is in the HOF. Tim mentioned a couple great examples. I did the same perusal of the HOF last night and couldn't believe some of the horses we, as a community, have voted in the HOF when Right Hand Man of all horses isn't even close to enshrinement.

I think two options could help the situation. One, have a committee of folks willing to do the research choose the HOF entrants every year, and let them choose more than one. Second, keep the same voting system, but allow for more than one thoroughbred entrant per class. In real sports halls of fame, just because Babe Ruth is in the ballot doesn't mean Christy Mathewson isn't also worthy. Likewise in the SIM, Maelstrom's obvious worthiness shouldn't delay entrance for others with compelling cases. Either voting method should help both AW and turf horses as well (hi, Maddy!!).