Confidence in the Sim

[Laura Ferguson]

OK - the people who don't concentrate on chasers and are posting in this thread are confusing the issue. It's like trying to have a conversation about making cider out of apples, and people keep chiming in about tomatoes.

Anyway, the concern, to put it in dirt router terms, is how would you feel if every thoroughbred currently racing was downgraded a level in terms of the label placed on them. So, Owl Let You Know now gallops stakes. In the meantime, the yearling crop is galloping freak, and not just one or two, but bunches. Fast forward. The yearlings are now 2yos, and are posting speed figures in the 90s. The downgraded older horses are now posting speed figures in the 80s - including Owl Let You Know. The new yearling crop is also freak heavy. The question everyone would have is, what happens when the 2yos turn 3, and in the second half of the year, start facing older horses. Are they going to sweep all the spots in the Steward's Cup races at the end of the year? Does it even make sense to keep an older stakes in training - unless there's a 4yo+ only race or some other age restriction, if they're going to get smoked by the horde of freaks that are finally old enough to compete against them? If you owned one of the better 4yos that is in that boat, you might be a little frustrated/concerned, even if you might also own some of the rising youngsters who might capitalize on this differential. Those are the emotions that are being expressed in this forum, at least from where I stand.

Now, the sidebar here are the two Steward-created freak chasers. It's like having two unpedigreed dirt routers that have a rating faster/higher than Owl Let You Know added to the mix. There are only two, so they can't be in every graded stakes, and they are colts, so the impact is on colt/open races, rather than filly races. One has a record of 5-4-1-0, the other has a record of 6-5-0-1. To be fair, both lost to a mere stakes in the Steward's Cup, one by a head, so it may be that the difference between a high-rated stakes and these two freaks aren't all that great, but so far, they've been winning every other race they've been entered in. So, when you look at that, you have to think how much worse is it going to be when instead of only two freaks to contend with, you have dozens? I don't begrudge the owners of the freaks anything, but I can see where players view these two as the tip of the iceberg of things to come, when all these other freaks are old enough to compete against those that are only rated stakes.

Finally, I think the prior change to chasers had more to do with the fact that there was thread with a number of simsters expressing the same thoughts, than me individually. I say this because I've suggested other changes that have gone nowhere (removing foal limits on mixers - I'm looking at you), or were implemented _years_ after I'd given up on the change happening (proxy bidding). I remember telling people who suggested proxy bidding to give it up, it was never going to happen, but it finally did, long after I'd quit suggesting it. And I'm glad - better late than never on that one.

Just my two cents' worth.

[Flizan Hambletonian]

Rochelle, I don´t think you and Kent are the problem. But the way the SC-freaks were introduced in the game is a big problem. But that´s not the issue here. It will be very interesting what happens y 52 with all the older horses, cause it´s strange that no older horses change their comment as with mixers this year. I like the change in mixers, when they have become downgraded. To many freaks and stakes, and some of them has trouble even to take their maiden. I wish our sc-horses would be downgraded to, so that a freak truly is a freak and a stakes is competitive and able to win stakes-races. The rest can be graded as allowance, productive, claimers and so on. I love that I have plenty SC-freaks in my barn at the moment, but I´m afraid that they wont stand a chance among all the other zillions freaks!

[Nena Olson]

Wasn't this just like the mixers where the bar for what a freak was was raised? Em didn't lower anybody's numbers. She just raised the bar on what number created a freak. Not like she went through and was like 'hmmm this horse is a 15, lets make it a 12'. The horses that are older, was this before you knew which mares were Brilliant producers? Now you know which mares are the cream of the crop so of course the younger horses are going to have better marks, as you bred higher quality. I bet the mares that you bred 8 or 9 years ago that were BSed as 'potential' or whatever the C rating is, were not as much on your priority list.

I bred my same mares I always did and got zero freaks, if that means anything LOL. All my 3 year old chasers are 'stakes' and they are the same mares I've bred over and over, even before chasing broodmare ratings added a level.

[Flizan Hambletonian]

Nena, the difference is that the older SC-horses don´t change their comments to the better, they are still allowance or stakes. The 2 and 3 y old horses are all stakes or freaks. So are the younger horses better than the older ones? In that case, we should all pension all the older horses after this season...

[Nena Olson]

Nena, the difference is that the older SC-horses don´t change their comments to the better, they are still allowance or stakes. The 2 and 3 y old horses are all stakes or freaks. So are the younger horses better than the older ones? In that case, we should all pension all the older horses after this season...

Nothing changed though except that you guys bred better horses... I don't really know what to say except maybe go back to breeding your not as nice mares? Pretend your Brilliant chase mares don't exist? Ignore the newer stallions that may hypo better because they have better pedigrees? I don't really know what to tell you since nothing changed behind the scenes regarding your horse's ability except what number is now required for the game to list 'Chase Freak' on your horse's page.

This is from the notice of when the change took place (Y48 aka 3 years ago...):

2. BIG improvements to Steeplechasing: Tons of new races, new purses for the graded stakes, and an across-the-board fix on the speed figure situation. It will take you a while to get used to the new race times/speed figures/ability comments, but note that none of your horses have changed themselves, just the way we read them out has changed. This should get rid of the 100 speed figure issue plaguing every single steeplechase race. Additionally, mares got a new ability category, called Brilliant, and we automatically updated any horse that would have fit into that level and was already checked. Lastly, you can check your steeplechasers' fitness for the first time, which you were totally unable to do before.

So you have been breeding better horses than you did in Year 47 and below. Brilliant mares were introduced and I can bet anything, you were more excited to breed Brilliants than you were Strong or Potential. Any horse that you bred in Y48 or later, I bet you didn't breed all the mares you bred in Y47. Horses get faster when you start breeding better stock. It happened when Blue Hen was introduced into the game...

[Dave Trainer]

OK - the people who don't concentrate on chasers and are posting in this thread are confusing the issue. It's like trying to have a conversation about making cider out of apples, and people keep chiming in about tomatoes.

Anyway, the concern, to put it in dirt router terms, is how would you feel if every thoroughbred currently racing was downgraded a level in terms of the label placed on them. So, Owl Let You Know now gallops stakes. In the meantime, the yearling crop is galloping freak, and not just one or two, but bunches. Fast forward. The yearlings are now 2yos, and are posting speed figures in the 90s. The downgraded older horses are now posting speed figures in the 80s - including Owl Let You Know. The new yearling crop is also freak heavy. The question everyone would have is, what happens when the 2yos turn 3, and in the second half of the year, start facing older horses. Are they going to sweep all the spots in the Steward's Cup races at the end of the year? Does it even make sense to keep an older stakes in training - unless there's a 4yo+ only race or some other age restriction, if they're going to get smoked by the horde of freaks that are finally old enough to compete against them? If you owned one of the better 4yos that is in that boat, you might be a little frustrated/concerned, even if you might also own some of the rising youngsters who might capitalize on this differential. Those are the emotions that are being expressed in this forum, at least from where I stand.

Now, the sidebar here are the two Steward-created freak chasers. It's like having two unpedigreed dirt routers that have a rating faster/higher than Owl Let You Know added to the mix. There are only two, so they can't be in every graded stakes, and they are colts, so the impact is on colt/open races, rather than filly races. One has a record of 5-4-1-0, the other has a record of 6-5-0-1. To be fair, both lost to a mere stakes in the Steward's Cup, one by a head, so it may be that the difference between a high-rated stakes and these two freaks aren't all that great, but so far, they've been winning every other race they've been entered in. So, when you look at that, you have to think how much worse is it going to be when instead of only two freaks to contend with, you have dozens? I don't begrudge the owners of the freaks anything, but I can see where players view these two as the tip of the iceberg of things to come, when all these other freaks are old enough to compete against those that are only rated stakes.

Finally, I think the prior change to chasers had more to do with the fact that there was thread with a number of simsters expressing the same thoughts, than me individually. I say this because I've suggested other changes that have gone nowhere (removing foal limits on mixers - I'm looking at you), or were implemented _years_ after I'd given up on the change happening (proxy bidding). I remember telling people who suggested proxy bidding to give it up, it was never going to happen, but it finally did, long after I'd quit suggesting it. And I'm glad - better late than never on that one.

Just my two cents' worth.

Excellent post Laura, that is exactly what we have been saying.

Nena , a lot of the 4yo plus chasers would have been freaks but I think it was at the end of year 48 that they all got downgraded.

I don't think we have all bred better horses. I don't think it can be down to Brilliant mares, as in your quote the Steward stated they were simply reclassified in the same way as the gallop ratings, they were not improved. I have many more Freak 2yo's than Brilliant mares. I may be wrong. The steward would have to answer that question.

Rochelle - the 2 Freaks you and Kent have can't win every graded race so of course other players can win some. Both are colts so they can't win any graded race for fillies.

As Laura explained so eloquently, next season there will be a plethora of Freaks running in 4yo plus graded stakes races. The fact that some of us have lots does not make up for the fact our current 4yo plus chasers will not be competitive. That is not insane. Does it matter if our 3yo or 7yo are winning? Of course it does.

Do you think Laura and I are attacking you when we are pointing out facts? As she said, your horse is just the tip of the iceberg. Its why I've continually said this thread is not about the two 4yo created by the Steward, its about next season on.

[Laura Ferguson]

Wasn't this just like the mixers where the bar for what a freak was was raised? Em didn't lower anybody's numbers. She just raised the bar on what number created a freak. Not like she went through and was like 'hmmm this horse is a 15, lets make it a 12'. The horses that are older, was this before you knew which mares were Brilliant producers? Now you know which mares are the cream of the crop so of course the younger horses are going to have better marks, as you bred higher quality. I bet the mares that you bred 8 or 9 years ago that were BSed as 'potential' or whatever the C rating is, were not as much on your priority list.

I bred my same mares I always did and got zero freaks, if that means anything LOL. All my 3 year old chasers are 'stakes' and they are the same mares I've bred over and over, even before chasing broodmare ratings added a level.

Not the same as mixers. I'm breeding the same mares I bred before - same top mares, same brilliant rating, same top hypos, and in many cases, the same sires. The only chaser freaks I have that are older than age 4 are the ones that I never got around to training to jump again, and I'm sure they'd also be downgraded to stakes. Everyone 4+ that I've re-trained to jump gallops no better than stakes, including my filly that won the Steward's Cup race last year. On the other hand, 1/3 of my 3yo chaser crop is freak, the rest are stakes; same percentages for my 2yo chaser crop, so six 3yos and nine 2yos.

[Nena Olson]

Yes but what I was saying is that you bred better horses in the 3 year old crop. Has nothing to do with anything other than you bred better horses. All divisions go through it at some point. They can't stay the same level forever.. unless you want Em to go through and continuously cap your foals so that they are never better than the older horses? Most other divisions, you don't notice it as much because people retire their best horses as 3yo/4yo/5yos. Chasing is one of the few divisions outside of Arabians that keeps horses around until they are 9. You found out who the top mares were, so those mares went to even better studs, because people want their horses to constantly be improving... well I thought anyway. The 3 year old crop is the first crop where people KNEW which mares were better than the others. The foals from these 3 year olds when they retire, will probably be even BETTER. You also have to consider that the stallions retiring are probably also getting better and better. Remember when the best that a dirt router could work was 58 flat? what about 57 flat? Now we have horses that are working 56.8 and faster. The chasers are evolving to be better, that is all that is happening. Embrace the improvement of your crops! My chasers stayed the same so clearly mine are not evolving LOL

[Hamish Mcgonaghal]

Rochelle of course I want to win more stakes races , I want more stables to get into steeple chasing but on a level playing field where anyone could breed a horse that could be the next Factious, Tomato or Cathay Williams.

Nena I remember when there was no turf sprinter freaks ,then there was 1 for 2 seasons, the next year was a couple more and now there are roughly 16 (some may be retired). That is evolution.
I have 0 4yo+ freaks
I have 35 3yo freaks and 36 2yo freaks

I am just asking for clarity on our concerns from the powers that be who understand our situation

[Laura Ferguson]

But here's what I don't get. Epaulette, Fulbright and I Love to Jump are all comparable. Same brilliant mares. Every one of the 4yos - chaser stakes. Not a chaser freak among them. Same crosses for 3yos - more freaks than are probably realistic. And I'm not the only one with these stats, or I might chalk it up to an anomaly on my part. I get evolving, but this is such a stark and crazy line of demarcation between the 4yo crop and the 3yo crop that it is baffling. In this case, it is evolution on warp speed, the likes of which I haven't seen in any other division, especially in the span of a single SIM year.

[Hamish Mcgonaghal]

You are right Laura it is on warp speed and the speed figures back up the comments

[Louise Bayou]

I bet if Rachel had happened in chat, randomly bid on that horse there wouldn't be this thread...by her husband. Or vice versa. You can say what you want but I highly doubt it.

[Hamish Mcgonaghal]

I bet if Rachel had happened in chat, randomly bid on that horse there wouldn't be this thread...by her husband. Or vice versa. You can say what you want but I highly doubt it.

Yeah maybe, maybe not but it didn't happen that way so let's deal in facts not hypothetical's. Answers by the people who matter can put this to bed.

[Dave Trainer]

I bet if Rachel had happened in chat, randomly bid on that horse there wouldn't be this thread...by her husband. Or vice versa. You can say what you want but I highly doubt it.

Please don't make this thread about those two horses. They are not the main issue. I'd be bringing this up whoever owned them. I contacted the Steward over a month ago about this problem when the SF's were reduced on older chasers and my 3yo Freaks running in bumpers were getting 90+ SF.

Its about what will happen with our older chasers next season when there are lots of freak younger ones. The Stakes ones in particular.

That is what we are trying to find out. Currently it looks like they will only be good for claimers and the odd NW race if they can still run in them,

Only the Steward can clear this up.

[Laura Ferguson]

The Steward is at Breeders' Cup/November sales. She is aware of this thread, and once she isn't swamped with those two items, she will respond.