Question About Colts ?

[Darcy McBride]

Whilst I think the remark might have been about Frank’s colt, it is still rude and uncalled for.

Even if this comment was in jest about Frank's colt, it does not come across that way. Perhaps those type of jest remarks, should one feel compelled to make them, should be done between friends via Private Messages, and not on the open Forum.

[Gwen Morse]

Afternoon Nick.

I feel sure if ..George, Kent, or Pete were in charge of this horse.
/www.simhorseracing.com/horse.php?HorseID=1060504

It would reach the 350,000 mark.

You can probably get him up to 350k by sniping purses in undersubscribed races. That's more a matter of lots of free time and some patience rather than training skill.

The bigger question is "should you" retire him to stud?

The real answer to that is to ask yourself what do you hope to accomplish if you do ...

* Do you want the next hot young stud? It's not going to be him. Other players decide who the next rockstar is and they want a flawless pedigree to go with the nick. His female family isn't the best.

* Do you want your own stud to breed for "free" each year (except stall/board coasts)? That has to wait for him to retire so you can nick him to your broodmares. You don't want to stand the stallion equivalent of a "different career" horse if you hope to improve your stable.

* Do you want to try out retiring and breeding your own stud as the next stage of playing the game? Do you just want to breed a stallion you've raced for yourself for "fun" and you don't really care about his stats? Personally, I'd save that for an easier division than routes so that it's easier to make money off his foals, but you do you.

Earlier in year 55 you were really excited about a young horse (yearling? two year old?) who had a top gallop time. If that was a colt he might be a better prospect for soft stakes wins and being your first stallion.

[Katie Stepanian]

Whilst I think the remark might have been about Frank’s colt, it is still rude and uncalled for.

Even if this comment was in jest about Frank's colt, it does not come across that way. Perhaps those type of jest remarks, should one feel compelled to make them, should be done between friends via Private Messages, and not on the open Forum.

Agreed. He was asking for advice.

[Stormy Peak]

Whilst I think the remark might have been about Frank’s colt, it is still rude and uncalled for.

The remark showed up right under my post, and as I posted about a mediocre stallion, it appeared to me that, that was the horse he was talking about.

If he were talking about Frank's, horse, he should have said so.
But either way, I agree... it's rude and uncalled for.

Frank is doing the right thing here in the Sim. He's asking questions, trying to get structured opinions, he's not putting himself out there to get cheap shots about things he's asking about.

I was trying with my post to Frank, to give him some of my thoughts and reasons as to why anyone would breed to a stallion that's less than what most would find desirable. I just wanted to point out there are various ways to play this game... even when it comes to breeding to 'not the best' stallions out there. Sometimes it's just Fun to have a pedigree line you like to experiment with, but one really does have to keep their expectations realistic. And I posted an example, and even stated my expectations concerning my stallion, and again, it looked to me like that post directed towards me as it was posted very quickly after mine was put up on the board.

Stormy

[Carole Hanson]

In defence of Andrew Davidson, he often posts things in jest in the forum and in the chat and I’m sure he didn’t mean to hurt Frank. I’m not sure about this but I’m fairly certain Andrew is from the UK, that kind of dry, sarcastic humour is pretty normal here and people often ‘offend’ each other as banter.

That being said, people should be careful because you can’t pick up the tone of someone’s words over text and perhaps that comment was best left un-posted.

[Dylan Christensen]

In defence of Andrew Davidson, he often posts things in jest in the forum and in the chat and I’m sure he didn’t mean to hurt Frank.

Yeah Andrew does this * all the time and to be honest it's kind of refreshing

[Gwen Morse]

He had 15 foals in his first crop....most are claimers, but that doesn't mean they can't make a nice some of money in their career...and also...most of his foals are either Late Bloomers, or Progressive type, so I expect as 3 year olds, his foals will make be useful and it's not a big stretch to believe they could earn $20K on up, which is a chance at a nice profit if someone wanted to splurge the huge amount of $3,000 for his stud fee.

Stormy, we need more stallion owners in the sim like you, not less .

The whole "breed the best to the best and hope for the best", while being a snazzy line, doesn't really "work" in the sim for almost all players. The actual "best" horses are owned by the top few most successful players. What very active people on the forums tend to overlook is that the majority of players are struggling. They're not "winning" whether it be races, breeding, or other statistics. And, if you don't already have a broodmare band then you have to get one and no one is going to give it to you (that's a statement of fact, not a complaint).

Because of the randomness in the sim the most effective way to get to the "best" is to roll the dice a lot of times. Even budget "best" horse breedings cost around 25-50k for mares and another 25-50k for stallions. Breed 20 fillies in a year like like this and you're looking at a minimum of a million dollars. Now, how many of them will win their breeding price back? How many will hit Formidable (or better) as broodmares and/or nick at least B+ with budget best stallions? Spend a million dollars and you may get 2 or 3 worth keeping as mares and maybe half their costs back in combined purses.

Or you can breed on a steep discount where horses cost less to breed than their expected earnings. Breed 20 fillies that cost 10k each, and you have a pretty good chance of getting at least 20k in purse money from each. Pay 200k in breeding costs and make 400k in purse money. Plus, two or three will probably hit Formidable/B+ or better. You've doubled your money, instead of losing half of it. The next year, maybe you'll spend 15k on breeding another 20 fillies, which is still profitable and also improve the quality a little of the 2 or 3 broodmares from that crop.

There will be random or lucky things that benefit both kinds of breeder (a homebred graded stakes winner one year, or a couple lucky Star/BH BSA reports, or winning a contest for an extra-nice breeding). But no one can control when they happen so you can't breed expecting them.

At the end of ten sim years, all other factors being equal the first stable will have "better" broodmares. But it's very hard to get into a position where you can afford to lose half a million or more on breeding every year. It's more sustainable for most players in the sim to grow a little slower and a lot cheaper than run at a loss in order to establish their broodmare band.

Without stallions like Boomshakalaka that couldn't happen.

[Carole Hanson]

I feel like I say this pretty often, but conditions for new players these days are so much better than they were back when I started. I count myself as a very good player, I’ve won plenty Grade 1’s, had multiple champions, own a nice band of stallions and have a wonderful broodmare band. I joined year 29 and I only really reached success in year 45 (that’s when I got my first Grade 1 wins with my champion mare Queen of Atlantis), that’s close to 20 SIM years. I see new players reaching Grade 1 success much quicker these days, within 3-4 seasons.

I know it’s hard for new/mid tier players but we were all there once, we earned the right to stand nice studs for a decent chunk of money, just as much as you will earn that same right one day too I’m sure.

[Andrew Chillin]

Great day in the mornin! What a lot to read. Yall bout as full of it as you can stick. Franks colt looks like a fine runner. Aught to be able to run it in the ground and then some. Smashing claimers all the way. I hope he makes it to dickin dollars and hypos well. Heck if i know he'll be good or bad, i ain't no gypsy

[Dylan Christensen]

Because of the randomness in the sim the most effective way to get to the "best" is to roll the dice a lot of times. Even budget "best" horse breedings cost around 25-50k for mares and another 25-50k for stallions. Breed 20 fillies in a year like like this and you're looking at a minimum of a million dollars. Now, how many of them will win their breeding price back? How many will hit Formidable (or better) as broodmares and/or nick at least B+ with budget best stallions? Spend a million dollars and you may get 2 or 3 worth keeping as mares and maybe half their costs back in combined purses.

This logic doesn't make any sense to me, most new players come in and are told to do exactly what you're saying usually won't win the breeding cost back. If everyone was told to do this then did it and lost money than everyone would be broke. The best way to get a good horse as a newbie in this game is to take those decent broodmares and send them to good stallions and build up those lines. If you want to breed to lesser stallions that's a fine way to play but saying we need more people to do that makes no sense to me, you're hoping for a slide there rather than having a thought out methodical approach like if you were spending $50k-$100k per breeding.

[Gwen Morse]

I count myself as a very good player, I’ve won plenty Grade 1’s, had multiple champions, own a nice band of stallions and have a wonderful broodmare band. I joined year 29 and I only really reached success in year 45 (that’s when I got my first Grade 1 wins with my champion mare Queen of Atlantis), that’s close to 20 SIM years. I see new players reaching Grade 1 success much quicker these days, within 3-4 seasons.

I know it’s hard for new/mid tier players but we were all there once, we earned the right to stand nice studs for a decent chunk of money, just as much as you will earn that same right one day too I’m sure.

Nothing in my post either complained about high stud fees or referred to new players doing it hard. I think you may have read some things into my post that weren't actually there.

I don't hate/resent rich players in the sim. I open my PMs and rich players are sending me their trash horses that are better quality than I can afford to buy. I want to be adopted by every rich player in the sim .

I just had an amazeballs first season. I'm not stupid enough to think I did it all on my own. I did some of it on my own, but most of my success was because I have an awesome mentor, and she has awesome friends, and some players help everyone who passes through, and there are some kind lurkers who decided they liked something about me.

I wrote a post about the economics of breeding in the sim. We need cheap sires. They're a potential source of upward mobility for struggling players. We don't need _bad_ sires but we need ... mediocre ... sires who are cheap. We need more being provided by experienced players, because experienced players who understand breeding also understand the trade-offs that need to be made. Cheap breeders need diversity in their lines just like rich breeders. You can't breed a band of (healthy) broodmares if you can only afford to use the same three sires over a decade.

I feel like I say this pretty often, but conditions for new players these days are so much better than they were back when I started.

A lot of successful players say this pretty often. But it doesn't help anyone. It's like that old quote "Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."

If your response to any post from a struggling player is "the sim was harder when I started", "you kids want everything handed to you these days" or "don't do it unless you can afford to spend millions on it", you're wasting your time AND annoying the pig.

[Nini Panini]

I wrote a post about the economics of breeding in the sim. We need cheap sires. They're a potential source of upward mobility for struggling players. We don't need _bad_ sires but we need ... mediocre ... sires who are cheap. We need more being provided by experienced players, because experienced players who understand breeding also understand the trade-offs that need to be made. Cheap breeders need diversity in their lines just like rich breeders. You can't breed a band of (healthy) broodmares if you can only afford to use the same three sires over a decade.

I'd say that there are even decent to good sires that are cheap in every division. Sure, they will not be nearly as excellent as Dave Matthews Band, or Pinatubo, or Strong and Free, or See You Monday, or Brilliance, or Walk Off Grandslam, but they are there. And they can diversify your bloodlines, lift up your stable, and give you a good chance at offspring of decent quality. Additionally, I know many owners of expensive stallions are more than happy to work out a deal with newer players. Don't be afraid to ask.

Look at stallions' gallop stats in the studbook if you can. Weed out the mediocre. Mediocre will weaken your broodmare band and give you mediocre horses. You do not want that. Do not breed to cheap stallions just because they are cheap. You would be shooting yourself in the foot, in my opinion.

There are ways to succeed in this game for every player.

[Dylan Christensen]

I feel like I say this pretty often, but conditions for new players these days are so much better than they were back when I started.

A lot of successful players say this pretty often. But it doesn't help anyone. It's like that old quote "Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."

If your response to any post from a struggling player is "the sim was harder when I started", "you kids want everything handed to you these days" or "don't do it unless you can afford to spend millions on it", you're wasting your time AND annoying the pig.

Or, here's a thought. She's trying to tell you to listen to older players who have been very succesful(like herself)rather than thinking you know everything because you've found quicker success than most. People didn't find this quick success in the past and continued listening to what the majority of vets had to say like they should.

[Louise Bayou]

Yeahhhhh for being mediocre!!!!

[Gwen Morse]

This logic doesn't make any sense to me, most new players come in and are told to do exactly what you're saying usually won't win the breeding cost back. If everyone was told to do this then did it and lost money than everyone would be broke. The best way to get a good horse as a newbie in this game is to take those decent broodmares and send them to good stallions and build up those lines. If you want to breed to lesser stallions that's a fine way to play but saying we need more people to do that makes no sense to me, you're hoping for a slide there rather than having a thought out methodical approach like if you were spending $50k-$100k per breeding.

It's _very easy_ to win the breeding cost of a 10k horse back. It's fairly hard to win the breeding cost of a 50k horse back and still have time to use her as a broodmare.

You're also the second person to comment back to a post about struggling players as if it only applies to newbie players. The best way to get a good horse in the game as a newbie is to be social and demonstrate you're genuinely trying. If you do this other players will throw horses at you. Long term hopeless players appear to be pretty invisible though. They're out there - you can find them in the game stats.

You've also somehow managed to confuse a description of how struggling players can build up a broodmare band on a tight budget with "this is how every player in the game should breed".

The best way to get a broodmare band as as poor struggling player _who doesn't have millions to throw at the problem_ is to start at the bottom and breed up over time.

"Take those decent broodmares and send them to good stallions" presume players are starting with good broodmares. How did poor struggling players suddenly get their hands on decent broodmares?