Maria's Article on Steeplechasing

[Laura Ferguson]

If you haven't read it, please do - it is a well-written article, and I share many of the author's concerns/frustrations with the state of breeding in steeplechasing. One other issue with the real life sires is that they cover many divisions, not just steeplechasing, and so their fees reflect that fact. I find breeding in steeplechasing to be frustrating, and in general, if I didn't have the bankroll I did, I'd probably bail, as the stud fees are often high, given that it is often a struggle to get to $200k, let alone $350k, in earnings.

Not sure what the solution is - I keep retiring colts and crossing my fingers, but they consistently hypo worse than the real life alternatives. I've been giving Kilmarnock, my homebred stallion, a few mares each year, and I'm hopeful on a few of the foals, but it is an uphill battle. I am trying to diversify, but in the short term, it definitely isn't the best strategy. Hopefully it does pay off in the long run with an outcross stallion.

Anyway, I appreciated the thoughts expressed in the article.

[Nicole Marie]

Yeah that issue is why I've only very casually dabbled in steeplechasing. It's just not worth it for a 'poor'(er) player.

[Meghan Kingsley]

I agree with the article. I would love to have some 'Chasers, but I just don't have the bankroll to breed any, especially with how inconsistent they are. I had a handful for awhile, and after a few too many Stakes and Freaks who could barely eke out a check in a low allowance or claiming race, I gave up.

[Sara Julin]

I just made a return into the division, and I am quite scared. Now, I have the bankroll to support chasers, but I am still worried about coming back. Last time I was in this division I had little to no successes. And yes, this year I bred tons to only Snap Decision and Wicked Strong (simply because they were superior to the player studs) because I ain't willing to gamble with player studs. The stud fees were a pain... but... what to do with the current situation with the chasers?

[Polk Buffalo]

I agree that most playerbred stallions fail to become decent stallions.
I don´t agree that snap decision is the only alternative.
Titleholder, Gunite and perhaps a few more hypo very close to snap decision and the price tag is more reasonable.

I am waiting for that playerbred super stallion to arrive. Until then I will use the real life stallions that are available at the moment.

[Flizan Hambletonian]

I agree with Maria's concerns. I had an almost rage quit moment when I retired Morning Glory Z. And then Sputnik Z. Really good chasers with good pedigrees. And still... dissapointment. But all real life stallions were really necessary to the division. Otherwise it would have been catastrophical for the chasers- With crazy studfees and private stallions. I hope more ppl get into the chaserdivision, so there could be a chance for a new playerbred chaserstud!

(I have some stallions to retire tomorrow... but I don't have any hopes up- despite good raceresults, good pedigree and breeding shed-comments)

[Flizan Hambletonian]

I agree that most playerbred stallions fail to become decent stallions.
I don´t agree that snap decision is the only alternative.
Titleholder, Gunite and perhaps a few more hypo very close to snap decision and the price tag is more reasonable.

I am waiting for that playerbred super stallion to arrive. Until then I will use the real life stallions that are available at the moment.

Don't forget Shishkin! And Mandaloun, Constitution Hill, St Marks Basilica...

[Maria Schreuder]

There's certainly a bunch of the new created stallions that compare favorably (on hypos) to Snap Decision, as mentioned in the article, although I didn't name any individuals. But for a while he was the lone king at the top of the hill. I'm certainly utilizing some of the lately introduced ones myself - for the most part those with the low(er) fees as there's no historical evidence to say one is a better producer and trying to breed for versatility with my 'no potential/brilliant' chase mares is just pointless.

However, if all the colts in recent years hadn't proven spectacular failures in the shed, we wouldn't really be needing all this new blood, would we? Is there any hope the sons of the new guns are going to be any better?

It's a relief to hear that steeplechase breeders much more established and capable than I am share some of the same concerns though.

[Arthur Cutler]

Yes there are quite a few newly created stallions that match up to snap decision and are cheaper...As far as Freaks over the lifetime of a freak that horse should earn 100,000 plus over a lifetime if not more.....In my barn there are a random few freaks that make less but they are still near 100K.....I usually take my time with my chaser horses going through the progression of running them in maidens than bringing them through the ranks nw2,nw3,nw4, until i hit allowance and hopefully stakes...This way i am giving a horse confidence moving up and collecting a check to go along with that...Finding the right class is utmost important in my game...

[Nicole Marie]

I still wish we had barrier trials for chasers.

[Randell Johnson]

As has been mentioned, Gunite is only at 45k, and he hypos as good as Snap Decision or any other Steeplechaser stallion in the game.

If anyone wants to get more involved in Steeplechasing, or doesn't have enough funds, I am more than happy to cut his price down for those people. Just send me a message.

[Kent Saunders]

I read and share some of the concerns put forth. To me the root of the stud issue is the last Generation of studs as a group failed to produce a single viable top level stud. Lalor who was probably the best stud ever (racing wise) was a total flop as far as siring next generation studs. He did however leave us a ton of excellent broodmares. Kilcreggan, Reckless Soul, Fiftyshadesbriter and others (some private) also to this point let the breed down at least so far.
Purse structure wise there is an issue as well. You can't race till 3 but there are very few $100k+ races for 3 yr olds except for the SC's. So the best Chasers tend to finish their 3 yr old season with $100k-$150k. Now as Art alluded to, you have to be patient (which is expensive). Right now there are 13 active Millionaires in Chasing. all between 5 and 7 yrs okd. Which IMO isn't bad. Add to this is a terrible claiming program. You "Might" find 2 races a week for less than 10k claimers and not much of substance until you hit 30k and up. Because of this I dump alot of lower enders that would keep on racing in other divisions. Lastly IMO the new studs are somewhat high fee wise but will sort themselves out in the coming seasons. Yes Snap Decision is way overpriced but also was the only game in town 2-3 seasons ago with Mandaloun as far as Elite studs. Here are the new guys and their fees: Not including Private studs

Titleholder $47.5
Gunite $45k
Shishlin $45k
St Marks Basilica $40k
Westover $40k
Constitution Hill $30k
I didn't include those studs that only have a few Chasers foals to this point. Can these studs keep these fees? Probably not. IMO they all Hypo pretty close including Snap Decision and Mandaloun
My Rambling bottom line....the new studs need sorting out in the next few seasons, we could use a Stakes program overhaul and also a claiming program overhaul.

Kent

[Shannon Hunt]

People could price the irl studs at a buck fifty and I still wouldn't use them much because I find "create a dozen unraced horses, name them after real life horses for sentimental value, and have them outhypo the entire player stud base" an incredibly boring way to develop the division that leaves no incentive for me to cultivate better lines. Plus other reasons I won't mention. I felt forced to use SD/Mandaloun initially to have a chance at breeding anything useful, but nah, paying DR fees for chasers would be about as profitable for me as paying DR fees in DR (that is, steeply negative). Right now it looks like I'll be mainly using my own studs to breed colts until they pension, toss in a couple cheap playerbred studs for flavor, and once the colts are pensioned off the track, that's my chaser string culled out of play.

[Jon Snyder]

Native Trail has chase ability and I am also willing to work out something price wise if someone wants to send chaser mares to him

Jon

[Lucas Davenport]

Just read the article because when Laura recommends something I'll do that. Article is spot on IMO, but I had expressed similar thoughts to Em a couple/three Sim years ago, and I believe the resulting stallion sales were an attempt to deal with the issues. To be brief, I have spent a lot of game points hypoing and think Gunite and Titleholder are a nose better than the other new ones. Alas I had bred a lot of my mares already that year when I bought Titleholder, so we are going to be a bit delayed in seeing his results, although maybe fifteen or so will be available as soon as the year flips over. I have a couple Lalor-free colts/horses (specifically Kilcreggan and Reckless Soul over Le Vent mares) doing pretty well, and might retire one/two of them early next year just to get a sense of how they might work as stallions as well. I know I will be dating myself when I mention that when chasing was started in the Sim some of the best chaser sires were dirt sprinters, so don't be surprised at horses that are good sires in "other categories" work well as chasers. "Should we just geld our chaser colts?" I won't be, although I do continue to run my Lalor sired males longer than I should just because I have low expectations for them as sires. Doesn't mean I'll be giving up on them: they will get some trial runs. Oh, I do tend to think hypomating is a quite accurate indicator for chasers.

and PS: Ma Springs just pointed out to me that a Titleholder yearling colt now owns the second fastest ALL-TIME yearling 4F turf wo time. And a lot of my current crop of his chaser yearlings do NOT have just a "different career" notation. Got a handful of productive flat ratings and maybe 15 claimer flat ratings in my large crop of Titleholder chaser yearlings: just saying, for those that want to try to breed in that direction, it is a possibility, although I have never thought it to be a worthwhile effort. I would not be surprised if Gunite had similar but yet undefined versatility.